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> all of its competitors are essentially obsolete For most companies I've worked at I've used either SQL Server or Oracle and from what I've seen when looking

> all of its competitors are essentially obsolete For most companies I've worked at I've used either SQL Server or Oracle and from what I've seen when looking at job posts recently the demand is only increasing. Although I live in Los Angeles and not Silicon Valley. Additionally Facebook and other large tech companies still use MySQL and outside of silicon valley many large companies still run IBM databases. I don't see the other major databases being obsolete at all. I've used PostgresSQL before for learning (~3 years ago) but didn't really like the web based UI compared to SQL Server or Oracle query tools. Does anyone have recommended PostgresSQL query interfaces?

brightball 5y ago
Regarding SQL Server at least (I can't speak to Oracle), they've created something of a network effect. SQL Server is really expensive. But, the more Microsoft stack you have in house the more discounts you get. The more Microsoft certified staff you have, the more discounts you get. This biases companies to hiring more developers with Microsoft certs, which leads to more developers getting Microsoft certs, which leads to more discounts and a feeling of investment at higher levels of the company that lead them to be unwilling to switch. I spent 5 years at a company that was using SQL Server as the backbone of it's flagship product. They pushed it as far as they could, but ultimately the biggest issues with the product at the company revolved around either limitations of SQL Server, lack of features with SQL Server or licensing being prohibitive of different types of beneficial scaling strategies. I pushed for them to make the switch to PostgreSQL for probably my last 3 years there as part of the architecture group, including migration and training plans, etc but it was like talking to a wall. Nobody could acknowledge the SQL Server issues. Everyone who had a part in considering solutions was too invested as far as I could tell. Eventually they tried moving to Couchbase (NoSQL) before finally making the switch to PostgreSQL from what I heard from people I know who still work there. As far as query interfaces go, you can use just about any tool you like. I prefer Navicat myself but I know a lot of people like DBeaver and DataGrip.
- __app_dev__ 5y ago
  Thanks for the info! I've been using Navicat for SQLite and like it. If I ever get a PostgresSQL job I'll try it there since it works well for SQLite. At my current job we are on IBM AS/400 for ERP (legacy and replacing it would be very high risk as it would change the business drastically so that won't happy any time soon). For all other stuff we are using SQL Server and several of our key 3rd party vendors only use SQL Server. I think the fact too that some many companies run Microsoft Network and Servers that it naturally lends toward the network effect as you mention. Plus while it's expensive it's 10x cheaper than Oracle in many cases.
funcDropShadow 5y ago
I assume you are referring to pgAdmin, which isn't even a part of PostgreSQL. I work usually with a well configured psql cli tool, or IntelliJ IDEAs database console. They even turned it into its own product. But conflating a database UI/console with the database is big misunderstanding. Nobody pays for Oracle DB because of SQL Developer. The strength of PostgreSQL is in the flexibility and maturity of the features of the database core and its extensibility. At least those are the reason, why I have recommended PostgreSQL in the past.
mixmastamyk 5y ago
Obsolete as in, postgres is free/open/libre and as good or better than other options for 95% of projects, and growing. It's a similar situation to the old adage about "skating to where the puck is going," rather than where it is now. I don't use Web DB UIs, but I like dbeaver and pgcli a lot. You may find them useful.
- __app_dev__ 5y ago
  Thanks! Once I used dbeaver for SQL Server (can't remember why) but I can try it again in the future next time I use Postgres. I think for Enterprise SQL Server is increasing if anything (due in part because so many Companies run windows Servers internally) and developers can install it for free. I do like the power of PL/pgSQL although I've never worked with it in detail. I reminds me of the power of Oracle's syntax without the huge cost that only large companies can afford.
tomjen3 5y ago
Lots of older companies got Oracle and aren't changing that. I seem to recall that SQL server works really well with .net, in a way that most others don't. I think that explains the jobs. Then you have the people who make suboptimal choices, such as buying Oracle today, because nobody got fired for doing that.
- merb 5y ago
  > I seem to recall that SQL server works really well with .net, in a way that most others don't. my company uses postgresql and dotnet efcore and it works really really really well. npgsql/efcore.pg is really awesome and has stuff built-in that works. kudos to roji which basically built it (as far as I know does he work for microsoft to bring npgsql forward). but maybe it works equally well, because microsoft bought citus and thus many psql developers.
  - kaliszad 5y ago
    Do you mean: https://github.com/dotnet/efcore https://github.com/dotnet/efcore ?
- __app_dev__ 5y ago
  For me I've worked with the following databases with .NET (SQL Server, Oracle, SQLite, IBM AS/400) and probably others that I don't remember. .NET divers work great. As for Oracle when companies have been around for decades and rely on it I can see it's almost impossible to change without a huge risk to the business. Bu t if someone were starting a business today Oracle doesn't feel the way to go in most cases. Of course I'm sure they have some really good sales people that make it happen lol
in9 5y ago
Are you talking about a client application? PgAdmin is the goto for postgres administration. But some ppl like DBeaver and I really like Datagrip. However, I also really like using clis when they are available. In that sense psql is quite good and pgcli is really cool.
FridgeSeal 5y ago
> Does anyone have recommended PostgresSQL query interfaces? Nothing beats JetBrains DataGrip for me. I’ve tried a whole bunch of alternatives, but it’s most well connected and useful in terms of functionality.
- __app_dev__ 5y ago
  That's for the tip! I've used JetBrains for Development before and consider their quality exception so next time I use PostgresSQL I'll give it a try. I've also used Navicat for SQLite and like it so I'll probably try that one as well.
AlfeG 5y ago
I'm using DBeaver. And still using even for non PG loads

brightball 5y ago

Regarding SQL Server at least (I can't speak to Oracle), they've created something of a network effect. SQL Server is really expensive. But, the more Microsoft stack you have in house the more discounts you get. The more Microsoft certified staff you have, the more discounts you get. This biases companies to hiring more developers with Microsoft certs, which leads to more developers getting Microsoft certs, which leads to more discounts and a feeling of investment at higher levels of the company that lead them to be unwilling to switch. I spent 5 years at a company that was using SQL Server as the backbone of it's flagship product. They pushed it as far as they could, but ultimately the biggest issues with the product at the company revolved around either limitations of SQL Server, lack of features with SQL Server or licensing being prohibitive of different types of beneficial scaling strategies. I pushed for them to make the switch to PostgreSQL for probably my last 3 years there as part of the architecture group, including migration and training plans, etc but it was like talking to a wall. Nobody could acknowledge the SQL Server issues. Everyone who had a part in considering solutions was too invested as far as I could tell. Eventually they tried moving to Couchbase (NoSQL) before finally making the switch to PostgreSQL from what I heard from people I know who still work there. As far as query interfaces go, you can use just about any tool you like. I prefer Navicat myself but I know a lot of people like DBeaver and DataGrip.

__app_dev__ 5y ago
Thanks for the info! I've been using Navicat for SQLite and like it. If I ever get a PostgresSQL job I'll try it there since it works well for SQLite. At my current job we are on IBM AS/400 for ERP (legacy and replacing it would be very high risk as it would change the business drastically so that won't happy any time soon). For all other stuff we are using SQL Server and several of our key 3rd party vendors only use SQL Server. I think the fact too that some many companies run Microsoft Network and Servers that it naturally lends toward the network effect as you mention. Plus while it's expensive it's 10x cheaper than Oracle in many cases.

funcDropShadow 5y ago

I assume you are referring to pgAdmin, which isn't even a part of PostgreSQL. I work usually with a well configured psql cli tool, or IntelliJ IDEAs database console. They even turned it into its own product. But conflating a database UI/console with the database is big misunderstanding. Nobody pays for Oracle DB because of SQL Developer. The strength of PostgreSQL is in the flexibility and maturity of the features of the database core and its extensibility. At least those are the reason, why I have recommended PostgreSQL in the past.

mixmastamyk 5y ago

Obsolete as in, postgres is free/open/libre and as good or better than other options for 95% of projects, and growing. It's a similar situation to the old adage about "skating to where the puck is going," rather than where it is now. I don't use Web DB UIs, but I like dbeaver and pgcli a lot. You may find them useful.

__app_dev__ 5y ago
Thanks! Once I used dbeaver for SQL Server (can't remember why) but I can try it again in the future next time I use Postgres. I think for Enterprise SQL Server is increasing if anything (due in part because so many Companies run windows Servers internally) and developers can install it for free. I do like the power of PL/pgSQL although I've never worked with it in detail. I reminds me of the power of Oracle's syntax without the huge cost that only large companies can afford.

tomjen3 5y ago

Lots of older companies got Oracle and aren't changing that. I seem to recall that SQL server works really well with .net, in a way that most others don't. I think that explains the jobs. Then you have the people who make suboptimal choices, such as buying Oracle today, because nobody got fired for doing that.

merb 5y ago
> I seem to recall that SQL server works really well with .net, in a way that most others don't. my company uses postgresql and dotnet efcore and it works really really really well. npgsql/efcore.pg is really awesome and has stuff built-in that works. kudos to roji which basically built it (as far as I know does he work for microsoft to bring npgsql forward). but maybe it works equally well, because microsoft bought citus and thus many psql developers.
- kaliszad 5y ago
  Do you mean: https://github.com/dotnet/efcore https://github.com/dotnet/efcore ?
__app_dev__ 5y ago
For me I've worked with the following databases with .NET (SQL Server, Oracle, SQLite, IBM AS/400) and probably others that I don't remember. .NET divers work great. As for Oracle when companies have been around for decades and rely on it I can see it's almost impossible to change without a huge risk to the business. Bu t if someone were starting a business today Oracle doesn't feel the way to go in most cases. Of course I'm sure they have some really good sales people that make it happen lol

in9 5y ago

Are you talking about a client application? PgAdmin is the goto for postgres administration. But some ppl like DBeaver and I really like Datagrip. However, I also really like using clis when they are available. In that sense psql is quite good and pgcli is really cool.

FridgeSeal 5y ago

> Does anyone have recommended PostgresSQL query interfaces? Nothing beats JetBrains DataGrip for me. I’ve tried a whole bunch of alternatives, but it’s most well connected and useful in terms of functionality.

__app_dev__ 5y ago
That's for the tip! I've used JetBrains for Development before and consider their quality exception so next time I use PostgresSQL I'll give it a try. I've also used Navicat for SQLite and like it so I'll probably try that one as well.

AlfeG 5y ago

I'm using DBeaver. And still using even for non PG loads