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> will initially roll out only in the US. Ok so they’re planning to eventually roll out this spyware worldwide. I do not know how Americans can think China is

> will initially roll out only in the US. Ok so they’re planning to eventually roll out this spyware worldwide. I do not know how Americans can think China is bad in this while allowing this to happen.

trasz 5y ago
Never ceases to amaze how people believe that China is somehow more oppressive than the the country with world highest incarceration rate.
- skinkestek 5y ago
  You forget that death sentences are carried out much more swiftly in China. Also, while there's a lot to be said about court systems, public defenders etc in US I wouldn't compare the two.
- elzbardico 5y ago
  China have actual slaves. You can't even know the real rate of incarceration in China, and trying to figure it out is almost a sure way to get arrested.
- ggreer 5y ago
  The US has a high incarceration rate because it has a high crime rate. If EU countries had US levels of crime, they'd have US levels of incarceration. Also China doesn't count Uyghurs as incarcerated despite the fact that the PRC is committing genocide against them.[1] The PRC imprisons almost 2 million of Uyghurs a year. Of those, around a quarter million die. Oh and there's the forced sterilizations, destruction of mosques, brainwashing, banning of muslim-sounding names[2], forced labor, organ harvesting, and mandatory quartering of government agents.[3] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_laws_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_laws_in_China 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Servant-Family_Pair_Up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Servant-Family_Pair_Up
  - trasz 5y ago
    US has a high crime rate, because it has laws introduced specifically to increase the crime rate in specific racial groups; that’s where the War on Drugs came from. China doesn’t count Uyghur extremists as incarcerated for the same reason the US doesn’t count their brethren it kills en masse in Middle East as death sentences. It’s just a different thing. As for the rest of the list - most of it is just US state propaganda calling resocialization programs “brainwashing”, or leveling commercial buildings built without building permit “destruction of churches”. Some of that works exactly the same in US (forced labor), or is just entirely made up (“quarter million die”). Now, some of the stuff is a real problem of course - death sentences and organ harvesting - but throwing it together with the usual US propaganda doesn’t help the cause.
    - ggreer 5y ago
      > US has a high crime rate, because it has laws introduced specifically to increase the crime rate in specific racial groups; that’s where the War on Drugs came from. That's not true. If you released everyone convicted of a drug crime (including manufacturing, selling, or distributing), you'd decrease the US prison population by 20%.[1] I'm all in favor of ending the drug war, but that won't do much to the incarceration rate. Also, the drugs that are illegal in the US are just as illegal in other developed countries (if not moreso). To use one example: in the UK, you can get up to 7 years in prison for simply possessing LSD or shrooms, and life in prison for for supplying or producing them.[2] No european country has legalized recreational marijuana[3], while the state I live in legalized it a decade ago. Now look at China's drug laws. While in China I've been solicited for all kinds of illegal goods and services, but never drugs. Stolen or fake merchandise? Sure. Prostitution? Of course. But drugs? Not a chance. The reason for this is that China executes people for drug possession. They randomly test foreigners entering the country and prosecute them even if they have no drugs on them.[4] The government raids nightclubs and residences, then forces everyone to take drug tests and prosecutes them if they test positive. But please go on about how oppressive the US is. I've seen you comment on China several times before and it's always in favor of the PRC. This confuses the hell out of me. Consider this: We could not have this discussion in China. To contradict the official narrative there is to risk your career and your freedom. Yes, the US and other countries have big problems, and it's good to try and fix them. But the level of surveillance and oppression in China is unlike anything in the west. 1. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html#firstmyth https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html#firstmyth 2. https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing 3. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map-of-world-cannabis-laws.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map-of-world-cannabi... 4. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/china/local-laws-and-customs#drugs https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/china/local-laws-an...

trasz 5y ago

Never ceases to amaze how people believe that China is somehow more oppressive than the the country with world highest incarceration rate.

skinkestek 5y ago
You forget that death sentences are carried out much more swiftly in China. Also, while there's a lot to be said about court systems, public defenders etc in US I wouldn't compare the two.
elzbardico 5y ago
China have actual slaves. You can't even know the real rate of incarceration in China, and trying to figure it out is almost a sure way to get arrested.
ggreer 5y ago
The US has a high incarceration rate because it has a high crime rate. If EU countries had US levels of crime, they'd have US levels of incarceration. Also China doesn't count Uyghurs as incarcerated despite the fact that the PRC is committing genocide against them.[1] The PRC imprisons almost 2 million of Uyghurs a year. Of those, around a quarter million die. Oh and there's the forced sterilizations, destruction of mosques, brainwashing, banning of muslim-sounding names[2], forced labor, organ harvesting, and mandatory quartering of government agents.[3] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_laws_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_laws_in_China 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Servant-Family_Pair_Up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Servant-Family_Pair_Up
- trasz 5y ago
  US has a high crime rate, because it has laws introduced specifically to increase the crime rate in specific racial groups; that’s where the War on Drugs came from. China doesn’t count Uyghur extremists as incarcerated for the same reason the US doesn’t count their brethren it kills en masse in Middle East as death sentences. It’s just a different thing. As for the rest of the list - most of it is just US state propaganda calling resocialization programs “brainwashing”, or leveling commercial buildings built without building permit “destruction of churches”. Some of that works exactly the same in US (forced labor), or is just entirely made up (“quarter million die”). Now, some of the stuff is a real problem of course - death sentences and organ harvesting - but throwing it together with the usual US propaganda doesn’t help the cause.
  - ggreer 5y ago
    > US has a high crime rate, because it has laws introduced specifically to increase the crime rate in specific racial groups; that’s where the War on Drugs came from. That's not true. If you released everyone convicted of a drug crime (including manufacturing, selling, or distributing), you'd decrease the US prison population by 20%.[1] I'm all in favor of ending the drug war, but that won't do much to the incarceration rate. Also, the drugs that are illegal in the US are just as illegal in other developed countries (if not moreso). To use one example: in the UK, you can get up to 7 years in prison for simply possessing LSD or shrooms, and life in prison for for supplying or producing them.[2] No european country has legalized recreational marijuana[3], while the state I live in legalized it a decade ago. Now look at China's drug laws. While in China I've been solicited for all kinds of illegal goods and services, but never drugs. Stolen or fake merchandise? Sure. Prostitution? Of course. But drugs? Not a chance. The reason for this is that China executes people for drug possession. They randomly test foreigners entering the country and prosecute them even if they have no drugs on them.[4] The government raids nightclubs and residences, then forces everyone to take drug tests and prosecutes them if they test positive. But please go on about how oppressive the US is. I've seen you comment on China several times before and it's always in favor of the PRC. This confuses the hell out of me. Consider this: We could not have this discussion in China. To contradict the official narrative there is to risk your career and your freedom. Yes, the US and other countries have big problems, and it's good to try and fix them. But the level of surveillance and oppression in China is unlike anything in the west. 1. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html#firstmyth https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html#firstmyth 2. https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing 3. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map-of-world-cannabis-laws.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map-of-world-cannabi... 4. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/china/local-laws-and-customs#drugs https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/china/local-laws-an...