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Australia to prevent citizens ordinarily resident overseas from leaving

27 points by L_226 5y ago

L_226 5y ago
Particularly galling in my case as I'm a resident of Germany and was about to go home to see my family after 2 years
anigbrowl 5y ago
How does Australia improve its quarantine situation by preventing people from leaving? Halting the flow of incoming visitors temporarily makes a certain amount of sense, but a departing person lessens demand for local resources. this is a first, prior to this I have only heard of such exit controls in the USSR and similar totalitarian regimes.
- L_226 5y ago
  Just a continuation of Australia's slow decline into authoritarianism and irrelevance. I wonder if they'll read these comments of mine and revoke my citizenship for sedition
- sschueller 5y ago
  The irony that what was once a prison colony is now preventing people from leaving. Unbelievable.
- whack 5y ago
  A charitable interpretation is that this law is aimed at Australian residents traveling to other countries for pleasure or non-essential business, contracting covid, flying back home to Australia, and spreading it to others. Over the past year, Australia's covid rates have been far lower than other countries, hence why international transmission is a far greater risk. One alternative is preventing citizens who've traveled to other countries from returning home to Australia. Presumably this isn't legally/politically feasible because it violates a citizen's right to return home. Hence the government's decision to restrict people's ability to leave instead. I would hope tat getting an exemption is as simple and easy as "here's my lease and paystub in {COUNTRY}", but it remains to be seen how smooth and painless the process is.
  - masklinn 5y ago
    > A charitable interpretation is that this law is aimed at Australian residents traveling to other countries for pleasure or non-essential business, contracting covid, flying back home to Australia, and spreading it to others. That was already restricted. This change targets citizens living abroad and prevents them from going back home. Who could leave by demonstrating that they are residents of an other country.
    - whack 5y ago
      > Home Affairs Minister Karen Andrews said the change was introduced out of consistency. “This does not stop Australians ordinarily resident outside Australia from departing. However, these people will now need to apply for an exemption,” she said. My reading of the above was that citizens living abroad would still be allowed to leave Australia and return to their home. They just need to go through a centralized exemption process in order to demonstrate that they are residing abroad
      - L_226 5y ago
        The article states that they already had to prove they were exempt. However as I have not personally gone through this I am not in a position to comment on the accuracy of this statement. But from what I know of Australian bureaucracy, likely it was an ad-hoc decision made by a representative in the airport checking whatever documentation was provided. But now, you need to apply to the federal Home Affairs ministry for an official exemption, which comes with as much delay and red tape as you can imagine. So what I'm saying is; whilst one is ostensibly still "allowed" to leave if one meets the requirements, in practice it may now be more difficult if not impossible. But the fact still remains that this is frankly an obscene policy. I'm disappointed, and angry, but not surprised. Let's also not forget that the previous Home Affairs minister himself went abroad last year, contracted covid, came back and had meetings with others.
  - anigbrowl 5y ago
    But again, you could just say that anyone arriving, citizen or not, has to go through testing and/or quarantine. Saying people need permission to leave because they might come back is pointless indirection.
- gumby 5y ago
  The theory is that having some people casually coming and going will bring new variants into the country. Which might be a defensible stanve if there weren’t various incoherent and knee jerk policies and exceptions all around. I’d like to say, “well look, they’re simply doing the best one could given all the known and unknown unknowns”. But they aren’t even doing that. Sad to think they might be doing the best they can. Australia’s gone from a strong sensible start to utter incompetence.
kook_throwaway 5y ago
None of this was ever about a virus.
hourislate 5y ago
WTF happened to Australia? I was under the impression it was a "take no shit" kind of place. It seems like they've become some sort of clown world police state. The Government response is completely over the top considering the situation. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/ Is it because socialized medicine can't cope with a surge in illness (Canada was another example) exposing the poor state of socialized healthcare after spending 10's of billions a year in tax payer funds. Somehow the USA with it's private system was able to scale and accommodate massive amounts of patients without collapse while these other countries were invoking the worlds longest lock downs and basically shutting down everything to try and save a healthcare system that barely functions under normal conditions (Canada as an example, visit any Toronto Hospital).
- L_226 5y ago
  It's all about control. Sadly people I still talk to down there think it's for their own good. I'm ranting but the government is extremely corrupt and just obviously incompetent. And that's not even related to the literal rapes and sexual abuse that has occurred in the actual parliament building (by government employees, who mysteriously are never prosecuted). The current acting leader of the house "allegedly" anally raped a 17 year old and has had no repercussions this far
- elygre 5y ago
  > Is it because socialized medicine can't cope with a surge in illness (Canada was another example) exposing the poor state of socialized healthcare after spending 10's of billions a year in tax payer funds. Somehow the USA with it's private system was able to scale and accommodate massive amounts of patients without collapse while these other countries were invoking the worlds longest lock downs and basically shutting down everything to try and save a healthcare system that barely functions under normal conditions (Canada as an example, visit any Toronto Hospital). I don't think the data supports the idea that the US healthcare system handled the pandemic better than socialized healthcare systems.
  - jleyank 5y ago
_-david-_ 5y ago
Australia is returning to its prison colony roots.
notadev 5y ago
Just like China!
gumby 5y ago
I was glad for Australia’s straightforward “lock down to zero until we can do something better” strategy but since then several “better”s have arrived and the Morrison government has been unable to accomplish anything. In fact the whole lockdown regime appears to have been a lucky first guess, as no sensible action has subsequently been taken. And locking your own citizens out has never been legitimately defensible. But Australia has long taken a “fuck you” attitude to her ex pats, unlike other countries who court them as valuable members of the country.
- melbournegrad 5y ago
  Can you show me a country the size of Australia with <1000 COVID deaths?
  - gumby 5y ago
    Indeed, I think Australia got lockdown right to start. However there were incoherencies in the lockdown (wealthy foreigners and Hollywood stars can come and go; few Australians can get home). The vaccine rollout has been a shitshow; I'm in the US, another nest of incompetence, and got my second shot in April while some of my friends back home (yep, in Melb) just got their first. And the financial support for people who are really suffering has been nothing compared to the States -- so much for helping the Aussie battler. No intelligent followthrough. And let's not get started on Scotty jetting off to Cornwall uninvited for a seaside trip while everyone else is bottled up at home.
bogomipz 5y ago
Wow. In the last week we have seen the Prime Minister call in the Australia Defense Forces to enforce lockdown in Sydney[1]. We have seen the Police guarding apartment blocks to prevent residents from leaving[2] and now there's a ban on foreign residents leaving the country? As if these things weren't jarring enough, Hollywood celebrities seem to have been given great leeway in being able to to come and go as they please.[3] [1] https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/defence-force-called-in-to-help-with-sydney-covid-19-lockdown-enforcement-20210729-p58e5e.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/defence-force-called-in-... [2] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-27/blacktown-apartment-block-under-police-guard-over-covid/100325594 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-27/blacktown-apartment-b... [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55851074 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55851074
sjdrc 5y ago
It’s next to impossible to actually get into the country at this point in any case. The whole of Australia is only allowing in 1500 people per week into hotel quarantine - a drop from over 3000 heavily lobbied for by the QLD premier who went to the olympics and then thought that she deserved one of the 214 places per day for the whole country more than one of the tens of thousands of Australians who are desperate to get home at the moment. Meanwhile as mentioned in other comments we are letting in celebrities and sports players - we hosted the bloody tennis early this year and recently in Melbourne there were multiple large sporting events with international teams - why the hell are the government allowing these players to take valuable spots? Not to mention we come out of a serious lockdown and then they immediately allow 20-80 THOUSAND people to go to the stadiums… where there were several covid transmissions. Screw this countries leadership. I’m in a long distance relationship with someone overseas and there is zero consideration for the severe mental health impacts that this has had on myself and my partner, and zero response to the thousands of other people in a situation similar to mine, or that of people with sick relatives, be it if they need to leave Australia to visit or non Australians arriving into the country. Just one reason why I hate this country and it’s absolutely moronic conservative government filled with literal rapists, Hillsong religious nut jobs, homophobes, bigots, and people who funnel our wealth directly into the pockets of billionaires.
L_226 5y ago
Here's former PM Malcolm Turnbull (knifed by current PM Morrison) sharing a first hand account of a resident leaving for Italy https://twitter.com/TurnbullMalcolm/status/1423426989608693760?s=19 https://twitter.com/TurnbullMalcolm/status/14234269896086937...
- shard972 5y ago
  after he knifed our best PM in recent years

27 points by L_226 5y ago

Particularly galling in my case as I'm a resident of Germany and was about to go home to see my family after 2 years

How does Australia improve its quarantine situation by preventing people from leaving? Halting the flow of incoming visitors temporarily makes a certain amount of sense, but a departing person lessens demand for local resources. this is a first, prior to this I have only heard of such exit controls in the USSR and similar totalitarian regimes.

L_226 5y ago
Just a continuation of Australia's slow decline into authoritarianism and irrelevance. I wonder if they'll read these comments of mine and revoke my citizenship for sedition
sschueller 5y ago
The irony that what was once a prison colony is now preventing people from leaving. Unbelievable.
whack 5y ago
A charitable interpretation is that this law is aimed at Australian residents traveling to other countries for pleasure or non-essential business, contracting covid, flying back home to Australia, and spreading it to others. Over the past year, Australia's covid rates have been far lower than other countries, hence why international transmission is a far greater risk. One alternative is preventing citizens who've traveled to other countries from returning home to Australia. Presumably this isn't legally/politically feasible because it violates a citizen's right to return home. Hence the government's decision to restrict people's ability to leave instead. I would hope tat getting an exemption is as simple and easy as "here's my lease and paystub in {COUNTRY}", but it remains to be seen how smooth and painless the process is.
- masklinn 5y ago
  > A charitable interpretation is that this law is aimed at Australian residents traveling to other countries for pleasure or non-essential business, contracting covid, flying back home to Australia, and spreading it to others. That was already restricted. This change targets citizens living abroad and prevents them from going back home. Who could leave by demonstrating that they are residents of an other country.
  - whack 5y ago
    > Home Affairs Minister Karen Andrews said the change was introduced out of consistency. “This does not stop Australians ordinarily resident outside Australia from departing. However, these people will now need to apply for an exemption,” she said. My reading of the above was that citizens living abroad would still be allowed to leave Australia and return to their home. They just need to go through a centralized exemption process in order to demonstrate that they are residing abroad
    - L_226 5y ago
      The article states that they already had to prove they were exempt. However as I have not personally gone through this I am not in a position to comment on the accuracy of this statement. But from what I know of Australian bureaucracy, likely it was an ad-hoc decision made by a representative in the airport checking whatever documentation was provided. But now, you need to apply to the federal Home Affairs ministry for an official exemption, which comes with as much delay and red tape as you can imagine. So what I'm saying is; whilst one is ostensibly still "allowed" to leave if one meets the requirements, in practice it may now be more difficult if not impossible. But the fact still remains that this is frankly an obscene policy. I'm disappointed, and angry, but not surprised. Let's also not forget that the previous Home Affairs minister himself went abroad last year, contracted covid, came back and had meetings with others.
- anigbrowl 5y ago
  But again, you could just say that anyone arriving, citizen or not, has to go through testing and/or quarantine. Saying people need permission to leave because they might come back is pointless indirection.
gumby 5y ago
The theory is that having some people casually coming and going will bring new variants into the country. Which might be a defensible stanve if there weren’t various incoherent and knee jerk policies and exceptions all around. I’d like to say, “well look, they’re simply doing the best one could given all the known and unknown unknowns”. But they aren’t even doing that. Sad to think they might be doing the best they can. Australia’s gone from a strong sensible start to utter incompetence.

kook_throwaway 5y ago

None of this was ever about a virus.

hourislate 5y ago

WTF happened to Australia? I was under the impression it was a "take no shit" kind of place. It seems like they've become some sort of clown world police state. The Government response is completely over the top considering the situation. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/ Is it because socialized medicine can't cope with a surge in illness (Canada was another example) exposing the poor state of socialized healthcare after spending 10's of billions a year in tax payer funds. Somehow the USA with it's private system was able to scale and accommodate massive amounts of patients without collapse while these other countries were invoking the worlds longest lock downs and basically shutting down everything to try and save a healthcare system that barely functions under normal conditions (Canada as an example, visit any Toronto Hospital).

L_226 5y ago
It's all about control. Sadly people I still talk to down there think it's for their own good. I'm ranting but the government is extremely corrupt and just obviously incompetent. And that's not even related to the literal rapes and sexual abuse that has occurred in the actual parliament building (by government employees, who mysteriously are never prosecuted). The current acting leader of the house "allegedly" anally raped a 17 year old and has had no repercussions this far
elygre 5y ago
> Is it because socialized medicine can't cope with a surge in illness (Canada was another example) exposing the poor state of socialized healthcare after spending 10's of billions a year in tax payer funds. Somehow the USA with it's private system was able to scale and accommodate massive amounts of patients without collapse while these other countries were invoking the worlds longest lock downs and basically shutting down everything to try and save a healthcare system that barely functions under normal conditions (Canada as an example, visit any Toronto Hospital). I don't think the data supports the idea that the US healthcare system handled the pandemic better than socialized healthcare systems.
- jleyank 5y ago

_-david-_ 5y ago

Australia is returning to its prison colony roots.

notadev 5y ago

Just like China!

gumby 5y ago

I was glad for Australia’s straightforward “lock down to zero until we can do something better” strategy but since then several “better”s have arrived and the Morrison government has been unable to accomplish anything. In fact the whole lockdown regime appears to have been a lucky first guess, as no sensible action has subsequently been taken. And locking your own citizens out has never been legitimately defensible. But Australia has long taken a “fuck you” attitude to her ex pats, unlike other countries who court them as valuable members of the country.

melbournegrad 5y ago
Can you show me a country the size of Australia with <1000 COVID deaths?
- gumby 5y ago
  Indeed, I think Australia got lockdown right to start. However there were incoherencies in the lockdown (wealthy foreigners and Hollywood stars can come and go; few Australians can get home). The vaccine rollout has been a shitshow; I'm in the US, another nest of incompetence, and got my second shot in April while some of my friends back home (yep, in Melb) just got their first. And the financial support for people who are really suffering has been nothing compared to the States -- so much for helping the Aussie battler. No intelligent followthrough. And let's not get started on Scotty jetting off to Cornwall uninvited for a seaside trip while everyone else is bottled up at home.

bogomipz 5y ago

Wow. In the last week we have seen the Prime Minister call in the Australia Defense Forces to enforce lockdown in Sydney[1]. We have seen the Police guarding apartment blocks to prevent residents from leaving[2] and now there's a ban on foreign residents leaving the country? As if these things weren't jarring enough, Hollywood celebrities seem to have been given great leeway in being able to to come and go as they please.[3] [1] https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/defence-force-called-in-to-help-with-sydney-covid-19-lockdown-enforcement-20210729-p58e5e.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/defence-force-called-in-... [2] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-27/blacktown-apartment-block-under-police-guard-over-covid/100325594 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-27/blacktown-apartment-b... [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55851074 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55851074

sjdrc 5y ago

It’s next to impossible to actually get into the country at this point in any case. The whole of Australia is only allowing in 1500 people per week into hotel quarantine - a drop from over 3000 heavily lobbied for by the QLD premier who went to the olympics and then thought that she deserved one of the 214 places per day for the whole country more than one of the tens of thousands of Australians who are desperate to get home at the moment. Meanwhile as mentioned in other comments we are letting in celebrities and sports players - we hosted the bloody tennis early this year and recently in Melbourne there were multiple large sporting events with international teams - why the hell are the government allowing these players to take valuable spots? Not to mention we come out of a serious lockdown and then they immediately allow 20-80 THOUSAND people to go to the stadiums… where there were several covid transmissions. Screw this countries leadership. I’m in a long distance relationship with someone overseas and there is zero consideration for the severe mental health impacts that this has had on myself and my partner, and zero response to the thousands of other people in a situation similar to mine, or that of people with sick relatives, be it if they need to leave Australia to visit or non Australians arriving into the country. Just one reason why I hate this country and it’s absolutely moronic conservative government filled with literal rapists, Hillsong religious nut jobs, homophobes, bigots, and people who funnel our wealth directly into the pockets of billionaires.

L_226 5y ago

Here's former PM Malcolm Turnbull (knifed by current PM Morrison) sharing a first hand account of a resident leaving for Italy https://twitter.com/TurnbullMalcolm/status/1423426989608693760?s=19 https://twitter.com/TurnbullMalcolm/status/14234269896086937...

shard972 5y ago
after he knifed our best PM in recent years