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Sidetopic, but I am rather disappointed that Venmo has been pressuring me via email to embrace crypto and imagine behind the scenes they own however much, trade

Sidetopic, but I am rather disappointed that Venmo has been pressuring me via email to embrace crypto and imagine behind the scenes they own however much, trades only get executed internally, and they do their best to extract transaction fees. To me this is the antithesis of what the crypto community was looking to stand for in terms of privacy and independence from traditional banking systems.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
Venmo is pushing crypto hard because Instant Payments are coming down the pipeline from the Fed in the next 18 months (already in beta testing with a handful of smaller banks, they're ahead of schedule based on my reading of the roadmap), and that kills Venmo (and Paypal to a lesser extend) if they don't have something to pivot to. That's what you're seeing Visa, Paypal, and others attempt to go upmarket (business payments) or branch out (crypto, Plaid acq attempt).
- Guest42 5y ago
  Interesting, I’ll have to research that. It seems like something that would take a long time to deploy.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    It's been in the works for years. https://www.pymnts.com/news/faster-payments/2021/five-banks-test-fednow-real-time-payments-system/ https://www.pymnts.com/news/faster-payments/2021/five-banks-... https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federal-reserves-planned-instant-payments-service/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federa...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - spinax 5y ago
      Thanks for sharing, I as well didn't know about this. I've enrolled/used Zelle (via my bank app) and it's just a travesty of usability to me, after awhile I ditched it (and I don't hear a lot in the news about Zelle these days). What's your hot take on this new FedNow system vs. what Zelle tries to achieve via ACH? Do you think it'll be more "Venmo-like" (low friction) or will it end up a usability mess due to regulation requirements?
      - toomuchtodo 5y ago
        Zelle is owned by a consortium of the largest US banks [1], and does much more volume than Venmo (because its built into the UX of those participating in Zelle's real time payment network [2]). Congress strongly encouraged the Fed to develop FedNow to prevent Zelle from keeping smaller banks out of instant payment infra. FedNow will eventually replace the ACH system. Hot take: banks being banks, they'll crowd out fintechs because fintechs aren't chartered banks regardless of the UX (which is why Bancorp Bank is the underlying for so many fintechs). [1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/12/zelle-the-real-time-venmo-competitor-backed-by-over-30-u-s-banks-arrives-this-month/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/12/zelle-the-real-time-venmo-... [2] https://www.zellepay.com/get-started https://www.zellepay.com/get-started
        spinax 5y ago
        > FedNow will eventually replace the ACH system Now that's interesting - does that imply that the clearing delays in transfer (say your US Bank to your Brokerage, ~3 days ACH) will disappear and FedNow makes that an "instant" (within 1 day let's say) settled transfer? Very intriguing.
        mikeyouse 5y ago
        Yep - the goal is to move to ~real time transactions so settlement is instantaneous for most transactions with a much shorter window for settlement for those txs over some threshold (initial working docs said $25k, but it'll likely be larger by the time it rolls out).
- thehappypm 5y ago
  Venmo's core value right now is that it's ubiquitous. Everyone has a Venmo account and everyone trusts it. I paid an electrician through it yesterday -- no new Fed tech is going to replace it overnight, just like Zelle didn't kill it either.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ronshevlin/2019/02/11/venmo-versus-zelle/?sh=5e77002d3c62 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ronshevlin/2019/02/11/venmo-ver... (According to company reports, Zelle processed $35 billion in P2P (person-to-person) payments in Q4 2018 versus $19 billion for Venmo. For the full year, Zelle's total was $122 billion, almost double Venmo's $62 billion.) (2019) https://www.zellepay.com/press-releases/zeller-closes-2020-record-307-billion-sent-12-billion-transactions https://www.zellepay.com/press-releases/zeller-closes-2020-r... (Zelle® Closes 2020 with Record $307 Billion Sent on 1.2 Billion Transactions, Nearly 7,000 financial institutions are represented in the Zelle Network via their customers using the Zelle common mobile app, Achieving ubiquity with banks and credit unions: Nearly 500 new financial institutions of all sizes joined the Zelle Network® in 2020) https://www.businessofapps.com/data/venmo-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/venmo-statistics/ (Venmo key statistics. Venmo processed $159 billion in total payment volume in 2020) If anyone can plug into instant payments, your value as an instant payment provider that just does payments will fall rapidly.
    - r00fus 5y ago
      Zelle is useless to me because my credit union (like many other banking organization) doesn't support it. Really looking forward to a governmental, ubiquitous solution.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - thehappypm 5y ago
      I don't argue that Zelle is successful but it certainly did not kill Venmo. Venmo is alive and well. I think Zelle is more useful for things like tenants paying landlords, while Venmo is more for splitting a restaurant bill, so it doesn't shock me that Zelle is processing a lot more coin.
- r00fus 5y ago
  Sucks for Venmo, cash, etc. But clearly those apps can simply uptake instant payments (affiliate with bank or gain bank status) and stay relevant?
warkdarrior 5y ago
Venmo is clearly offering a service with the conveniences and ease of use that come with it. If you do not see the value and fees of that service, you can skip it and set up your own wallet, BTC node, etc.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

Venmo is pushing crypto hard because Instant Payments are coming down the pipeline from the Fed in the next 18 months (already in beta testing with a handful of smaller banks, they're ahead of schedule based on my reading of the roadmap), and that kills Venmo (and Paypal to a lesser extend) if they don't have something to pivot to. That's what you're seeing Visa, Paypal, and others attempt to go upmarket (business payments) or branch out (crypto, Plaid acq attempt).

Guest42 5y ago
Interesting, I’ll have to research that. It seems like something that would take a long time to deploy.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  It's been in the works for years. https://www.pymnts.com/news/faster-payments/2021/five-banks-test-fednow-real-time-payments-system/ https://www.pymnts.com/news/faster-payments/2021/five-banks-... https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federal-reserves-planned-instant-payments-service/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federa...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - spinax 5y ago
    Thanks for sharing, I as well didn't know about this. I've enrolled/used Zelle (via my bank app) and it's just a travesty of usability to me, after awhile I ditched it (and I don't hear a lot in the news about Zelle these days). What's your hot take on this new FedNow system vs. what Zelle tries to achieve via ACH? Do you think it'll be more "Venmo-like" (low friction) or will it end up a usability mess due to regulation requirements?
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      Zelle is owned by a consortium of the largest US banks [1], and does much more volume than Venmo (because its built into the UX of those participating in Zelle's real time payment network [2]). Congress strongly encouraged the Fed to develop FedNow to prevent Zelle from keeping smaller banks out of instant payment infra. FedNow will eventually replace the ACH system. Hot take: banks being banks, they'll crowd out fintechs because fintechs aren't chartered banks regardless of the UX (which is why Bancorp Bank is the underlying for so many fintechs). [1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/12/zelle-the-real-time-venmo-competitor-backed-by-over-30-u-s-banks-arrives-this-month/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/12/zelle-the-real-time-venmo-... [2] https://www.zellepay.com/get-started https://www.zellepay.com/get-started
      - spinax 5y ago
        > FedNow will eventually replace the ACH system Now that's interesting - does that imply that the clearing delays in transfer (say your US Bank to your Brokerage, ~3 days ACH) will disappear and FedNow makes that an "instant" (within 1 day let's say) settled transfer? Very intriguing.
        mikeyouse 5y ago
        Yep - the goal is to move to ~real time transactions so settlement is instantaneous for most transactions with a much shorter window for settlement for those txs over some threshold (initial working docs said $25k, but it'll likely be larger by the time it rolls out).
thehappypm 5y ago
Venmo's core value right now is that it's ubiquitous. Everyone has a Venmo account and everyone trusts it. I paid an electrician through it yesterday -- no new Fed tech is going to replace it overnight, just like Zelle didn't kill it either.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  https://www.forbes.com/sites/ronshevlin/2019/02/11/venmo-versus-zelle/?sh=5e77002d3c62 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ronshevlin/2019/02/11/venmo-ver... (According to company reports, Zelle processed $35 billion in P2P (person-to-person) payments in Q4 2018 versus $19 billion for Venmo. For the full year, Zelle's total was $122 billion, almost double Venmo's $62 billion.) (2019) https://www.zellepay.com/press-releases/zeller-closes-2020-record-307-billion-sent-12-billion-transactions https://www.zellepay.com/press-releases/zeller-closes-2020-r... (Zelle® Closes 2020 with Record $307 Billion Sent on 1.2 Billion Transactions, Nearly 7,000 financial institutions are represented in the Zelle Network via their customers using the Zelle common mobile app, Achieving ubiquity with banks and credit unions: Nearly 500 new financial institutions of all sizes joined the Zelle Network® in 2020) https://www.businessofapps.com/data/venmo-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/venmo-statistics/ (Venmo key statistics. Venmo processed $159 billion in total payment volume in 2020) If anyone can plug into instant payments, your value as an instant payment provider that just does payments will fall rapidly.
  - r00fus 5y ago
    Zelle is useless to me because my credit union (like many other banking organization) doesn't support it. Really looking forward to a governmental, ubiquitous solution.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - thehappypm 5y ago
    I don't argue that Zelle is successful but it certainly did not kill Venmo. Venmo is alive and well. I think Zelle is more useful for things like tenants paying landlords, while Venmo is more for splitting a restaurant bill, so it doesn't shock me that Zelle is processing a lot more coin.
r00fus 5y ago
Sucks for Venmo, cash, etc. But clearly those apps can simply uptake instant payments (affiliate with bank or gain bank status) and stay relevant?

warkdarrior 5y ago

Venmo is clearly offering a service with the conveniences and ease of use that come with it. If you do not see the value and fees of that service, you can skip it and set up your own wallet, BTC node, etc.