9 ms·

>we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to fo

>we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision. how many American get into that kind of shit storm? it seem like this benefit isn't worth the taxes that you pay

rs999gti 5y ago
The US may or may not have paid $2M to get Warmbier our of North Korea https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/north-korea-issued-2-million-bill-for-comatose-otto-warmbiers-care/2019/04/25/0e8022a0-66ad-11e9-a698-2a8f808c9cfb_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/north-kore...
- petre 5y ago
  He died, so it didn't do much help.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    What difference does that make? Is the ambulance worthless because not everybody it picks up lives?
    - stickfigure 5y ago
      The value I assign to "my government will ensure repatriation of my corpse" is $0.
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        Which is not what happened, given that he died after he got home. Again, not seeing how this is different than blaming the ambulance because you died in the ER.
    - imwillofficial 5y ago
      Too little too late makes all the difference in the world.
emodendroket 5y ago
How many Americans actually end up with real tax liability from a foreign country? Probably need to answer that before we determine whether it's "worth it" because my understanding is most people don't.
- simonh 5y ago
  Well there are a handful right here on this comment section. I'm a Brit and have known maybe half a dozen US citizens reasonably well here in London over the years, at least two of which renounced US citizenship for tax reasons while I knew them. It's definitely a thing.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    According to another post you do not owe tax on income below $108k so that’s probably not going to affect most filers, though I’m sure an anomalously high number of HN users are earning six-figure salaries.
    - simonh 5y ago
      Oh well, that's alright then. As long as it's only successful people getting screwed I suppose we're good.
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        I mean, am I supposed to feel sorry for high-income people because they have to pay tax to continue to benefit from US citizenship and US embassies? I don't really, nor do I consider it getting "screwed." I think it is only fair that well-to-do expats should pay into the system like everybody else. If they don't want to, I welcome them to take the article's lead and give up their citizenship.
        simonh 5y ago
        If it was just getting taxed up to a point I think you'd have a reasonable argument, but looking at the torturous nonsense they have to go through to the point where even US banks think the costs of having them as clients isn't worth the hassle, it's clearly way beyond that. Also, many of these people don't actually owe any tax at all, or relatively small amounts, but it's ridiculously difficult and costly to prove it. I mean what is the objective? Raise tax revenue from ex-pats, or drive them out of US citizenship? What's actually happening seems to be the latter, not so much the former. Surely that's a serious policy failure.
refurb 5y ago
What taxes? When I lived outside the US my wife and I would have to make more than ~$300k USD per year before any US tax obligation kicked in. And that was living in a lower tax jurisdiction. In a country with higher taxes and a tax treaty you could earn $1M per year and never pay the IRS a dime.

rs999gti 5y ago

The US may or may not have paid $2M to get Warmbier our of North Korea https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/north-korea-issued-2-million-bill-for-comatose-otto-warmbiers-care/2019/04/25/0e8022a0-66ad-11e9-a698-2a8f808c9cfb_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/north-kore...

petre 5y ago
He died, so it didn't do much help.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  What difference does that make? Is the ambulance worthless because not everybody it picks up lives?
  - stickfigure 5y ago
    The value I assign to "my government will ensure repatriation of my corpse" is $0.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      Which is not what happened, given that he died after he got home. Again, not seeing how this is different than blaming the ambulance because you died in the ER.
  - imwillofficial 5y ago
    Too little too late makes all the difference in the world.

emodendroket 5y ago

How many Americans actually end up with real tax liability from a foreign country? Probably need to answer that before we determine whether it's "worth it" because my understanding is most people don't.

simonh 5y ago
Well there are a handful right here on this comment section. I'm a Brit and have known maybe half a dozen US citizens reasonably well here in London over the years, at least two of which renounced US citizenship for tax reasons while I knew them. It's definitely a thing.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  According to another post you do not owe tax on income below $108k so that’s probably not going to affect most filers, though I’m sure an anomalously high number of HN users are earning six-figure salaries.
  - simonh 5y ago
    Oh well, that's alright then. As long as it's only successful people getting screwed I suppose we're good.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      I mean, am I supposed to feel sorry for high-income people because they have to pay tax to continue to benefit from US citizenship and US embassies? I don't really, nor do I consider it getting "screwed." I think it is only fair that well-to-do expats should pay into the system like everybody else. If they don't want to, I welcome them to take the article's lead and give up their citizenship.
      - simonh 5y ago
        If it was just getting taxed up to a point I think you'd have a reasonable argument, but looking at the torturous nonsense they have to go through to the point where even US banks think the costs of having them as clients isn't worth the hassle, it's clearly way beyond that. Also, many of these people don't actually owe any tax at all, or relatively small amounts, but it's ridiculously difficult and costly to prove it. I mean what is the objective? Raise tax revenue from ex-pats, or drive them out of US citizenship? What's actually happening seems to be the latter, not so much the former. Surely that's a serious policy failure.

refurb 5y ago

What taxes? When I lived outside the US my wife and I would have to make more than ~$300k USD per year before any US tax obligation kicked in. And that was living in a lower tax jurisdiction. In a country with higher taxes and a tax treaty you could earn $1M per year and never pay the IRS a dime.