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I am an EMT and talk to a lot of nurses, PAs, and physicians in various circles. This wave is worse for a few reasons. - Healthcare staff have great animosity

I am an EMT and talk to a lot of nurses, PAs, and physicians in various circles. This wave is worse for a few reasons. - Healthcare staff have great animosity towards the unvaccinated patients. They aren't victims here, they did this to themselves. Nobody can muster any more compassion, especially for these people. Patients and people at large, not even just the total-nutjob anti-vaxxers, are tired of restrictions. "Things are opened back up, I deserve to have a good time." - Staffing shortages building over the pandemic are making nurses hate the hospital administrations even more than before. Many were furloughed or laid off 6-12 months ago, and are now asked to work mandatory overtime with ridiculously unsafe nurse:patient ratios. - ... all while traveling contract nurses and providers are being utilized by the hospitals at a pay rate 3-4 times what staff are paid. Many nurses are leaving their jobs that pay $30/hour to take a traveling assignment at $90+/hour. These people are working side by side, there's disdain towards the travelers, but who cares they're making bank. - The "healthcare heroes" messaging is so obviously just a scam and the healthcare staff are now almost 18 months into a kafkaesque, double-speak nightmare. Previously this was reserved for veterans, and of course they were similarly screwed. It's all just been building up since the beginning of the pandemic - issues with skilled staffing are very real and happening across the country.

MattGaiser 5y ago
Any corporate culture messaging is a scam really. A company cares with its money (and this can be shown in working you less too, so not just cash comp). No money, they don't care about you.
- teeray 5y ago
  Not true. A company can pay 50% over market and have a complete trash culture that burns people out in weeks. Not being total assholes is also a form of soft comp that doesn’t get enough recognition. I do realize “pay me more” is a balm that is acceptable to many, but I actually like to enjoy what I do.
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    That is why I put "working you less too" in there. Either paying you more or letting you do less has a cost to the company. The speech about "our caring culture" doesn't.
- TheFreim 5y ago
  I could get payed a decent bit more and have decent benefits elsewhere but how nice and flexible my boss is makes it worth staying. I don't see how that's a "scam", I like it here.
jwcrux 5y ago
> - Healthcare staff have great animosity towards the unvaccinated patients. In addition to this, I’ve also heard anecdotally that many of the unvaccinated (by choice) patients have animosity towards the healthcare workers themselves because the patients see this virus as politicized. Overall I can imagine that it’s resulted in a more-hostile-than-average working environment which is bound to be stressful.
- paganel 5y ago
  > patients see this virus as politicized Unfortunately they are correct on this, this pandemic has been heavily politicized in the States, which imo was a very wrong thing to do. They tried the same thing in my country (Eastern-Europe), with a political party blasting their logos on “vaccine information” tents installed on the sidewalks but fortunately it hasn’t caught on that well.
tdfx 5y ago
You know you're getting a bad deal when politicians start calling your profession "heroes".
- danuker 5y ago
  Just like having "Democratic" or "People's"/"Popular" in its official name makes a country less democratic.
  - JohnClark1337 5y ago
    Democratic Republic = Dictatorship
Alupis 5y ago
Vaccination rates are extremely poor among Nurses and other healthcare staff[1], poorer than the general population you seem to imply they despise for lack of vaccination. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2021/06/28/covid19-vaccination-rates-are-poor-among-healthcare-workershow-can-we-do-better https://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2021/06/28/covid19-va...
- exo-pla-net 5y ago
  This is false. "Among practicing physicians, 96% have been vaccinated. The rate drops to <50% among nurses" Arkansas, where this story is taking place, has only a 37% vaccination rate among the general population.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  I'm guessing if you have already had the virus then the pressure is off.
8ytecoder 5y ago
The rate for traveling nurses is indeed ridiculously high as compared to full-time on the ground nurses working their butt off.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Are the traveling nurses also not working their butt off?
  - 8ytecoder 5y ago
    I'm not sure anything in my statement is meant to say they don't work their butt off?
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      My bad, I read it as traveling nurse price is too high because the latter work their butt off, implying the others do not.
TheFreim 5y ago
> Healthcare staff have great animosity towards the unvaccinated patients. They aren't victims here, they did this to themselves. That seems strange to me considering there are TONS of diseases that are completely the victims fault. Diabetes, heart diseases, lung issues, etc can all be caused because someone chose to make unfortunate decisions. Why would you get into a profession where you're in contact with this kind of person in a daily basis and then get upset that you come into contact with them?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ssully 5y ago
  Because those conditions are more complex; there is some choice, but it's not the full picture. Those conditions don't overflow the hospitals either. In the United States, any adult could get the vaccine for free for months now, and these patients chose not to. I fully understand why a healthcare worker would be struggling with empathy at a time like this.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- 0xB31B1B 5y ago
  1) No one with diabetes yells at you that “diabetes is a hoax” and tells you to fuck off as you intubate them. 2) the prevention/cure for diabetes is clear (weight loss) but extremely difficult (low success rates). The prevention for covid is extremely easy and requires almost zero sacrifice or change in habits.
  - simplyunjustly 5y ago
    Me and my colleagues have not heard a single patient beg for the vaccine, tell us to fuck off as we intubate them (if they're able to do that, they have to consent to it), and I haven't heard any of my staff do anything that suggests animosity toward unvaccinated patients. There is plenty of animosity toward the families of elderly, bedbound, nonverbal patients that demand they be hospitalized every time they "seem more confused than usual." The vast majority of nurses here are unvaccinated, but most had COVID-19 last year prior to the vaccine if the rumors I hear from them are true. May I practice medicine in some outlier area, but all the headlines I've seen just seem to dramatize things. The one about the doctor who claimed she would tell patients "it's too late" then intubate them soundly particularly like bullshit.
challengly 5y ago
> Healthcare staff have great animosity towards the unvaccinated patients. They aren't victims here, they did this to themselves. That smacks of in-group signaling, victim mentality (portraying themselves as a victim) and is deeply unprofessional to say the least. When you have an obese patient, you still treat them just as anyone else. When you have a chronic smoker patient, you treat them just as anyone else. When you have a drug addict patient, you treat them just as anyone else. When you have a motorcycle enthusiast patient, you treat them just as anyone else. Being a healthcare worker is about healing. That's the job we signed up for. It's not about judging and condemning people you don't even know, while putting oneself on a self righteous pedestal.
bingohbangoh 5y ago
Fwiw my Uncle is a nurse in North NJ and says this “wave” is nothing. Small uptick over last summer. Nothing like last April when it first hit.
- dralley 5y ago
  Your Uncle needs to understand that just because North NJ isn't seeing much of a surge, doesn't mean there isn't a surge. The surge is happening on the Gulf Coast, Arkansas, and Missouri. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
- dennis_jeeves 5y ago
  Hey thanks, first hand comments like your's help, where misinformation the norm.
selimthegrim 5y ago
There are plenty of healthcare staff vocally unvaccinated in Louisiana themselves, I wonder how they feel about those patients.

MattGaiser 5y ago

Any corporate culture messaging is a scam really. A company cares with its money (and this can be shown in working you less too, so not just cash comp). No money, they don't care about you.

teeray 5y ago
Not true. A company can pay 50% over market and have a complete trash culture that burns people out in weeks. Not being total assholes is also a form of soft comp that doesn’t get enough recognition. I do realize “pay me more” is a balm that is acceptable to many, but I actually like to enjoy what I do.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  That is why I put "working you less too" in there. Either paying you more or letting you do less has a cost to the company. The speech about "our caring culture" doesn't.
TheFreim 5y ago
I could get payed a decent bit more and have decent benefits elsewhere but how nice and flexible my boss is makes it worth staying. I don't see how that's a "scam", I like it here.

jwcrux 5y ago

> - Healthcare staff have great animosity towards the unvaccinated patients. In addition to this, I’ve also heard anecdotally that many of the unvaccinated (by choice) patients have animosity towards the healthcare workers themselves because the patients see this virus as politicized. Overall I can imagine that it’s resulted in a more-hostile-than-average working environment which is bound to be stressful.

paganel 5y ago
> patients see this virus as politicized Unfortunately they are correct on this, this pandemic has been heavily politicized in the States, which imo was a very wrong thing to do. They tried the same thing in my country (Eastern-Europe), with a political party blasting their logos on “vaccine information” tents installed on the sidewalks but fortunately it hasn’t caught on that well.

tdfx 5y ago

You know you're getting a bad deal when politicians start calling your profession "heroes".

danuker 5y ago
Just like having "Democratic" or "People's"/"Popular" in its official name makes a country less democratic.
- JohnClark1337 5y ago
  Democratic Republic = Dictatorship

Alupis 5y ago

Vaccination rates are extremely poor among Nurses and other healthcare staff[1], poorer than the general population you seem to imply they despise for lack of vaccination. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2021/06/28/covid19-vaccination-rates-are-poor-among-healthcare-workershow-can-we-do-better https://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2021/06/28/covid19-va...

exo-pla-net 5y ago
This is false. "Among practicing physicians, 96% have been vaccinated. The rate drops to <50% among nurses" Arkansas, where this story is taking place, has only a 37% vaccination rate among the general population.
tonyedgecombe 5y ago
I'm guessing if you have already had the virus then the pressure is off.

8ytecoder 5y ago

The rate for traveling nurses is indeed ridiculously high as compared to full-time on the ground nurses working their butt off.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
Are the traveling nurses also not working their butt off?
- 8ytecoder 5y ago
  I'm not sure anything in my statement is meant to say they don't work their butt off?
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    My bad, I read it as traveling nurse price is too high because the latter work their butt off, implying the others do not.

TheFreim 5y ago

> Healthcare staff have great animosity towards the unvaccinated patients. They aren't victims here, they did this to themselves. That seems strange to me considering there are TONS of diseases that are completely the victims fault. Diabetes, heart diseases, lung issues, etc can all be caused because someone chose to make unfortunate decisions. Why would you get into a profession where you're in contact with this kind of person in a daily basis and then get upset that you come into contact with them?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ssully 5y ago
Because those conditions are more complex; there is some choice, but it's not the full picture. Those conditions don't overflow the hospitals either. In the United States, any adult could get the vaccine for free for months now, and these patients chose not to. I fully understand why a healthcare worker would be struggling with empathy at a time like this.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
0xB31B1B 5y ago
1) No one with diabetes yells at you that “diabetes is a hoax” and tells you to fuck off as you intubate them. 2) the prevention/cure for diabetes is clear (weight loss) but extremely difficult (low success rates). The prevention for covid is extremely easy and requires almost zero sacrifice or change in habits.
- simplyunjustly 5y ago
  Me and my colleagues have not heard a single patient beg for the vaccine, tell us to fuck off as we intubate them (if they're able to do that, they have to consent to it), and I haven't heard any of my staff do anything that suggests animosity toward unvaccinated patients. There is plenty of animosity toward the families of elderly, bedbound, nonverbal patients that demand they be hospitalized every time they "seem more confused than usual." The vast majority of nurses here are unvaccinated, but most had COVID-19 last year prior to the vaccine if the rumors I hear from them are true. May I practice medicine in some outlier area, but all the headlines I've seen just seem to dramatize things. The one about the doctor who claimed she would tell patients "it's too late" then intubate them soundly particularly like bullshit.

challengly 5y ago

> Healthcare staff have great animosity towards the unvaccinated patients. They aren't victims here, they did this to themselves. That smacks of in-group signaling, victim mentality (portraying themselves as a victim) and is deeply unprofessional to say the least. When you have an obese patient, you still treat them just as anyone else. When you have a chronic smoker patient, you treat them just as anyone else. When you have a drug addict patient, you treat them just as anyone else. When you have a motorcycle enthusiast patient, you treat them just as anyone else. Being a healthcare worker is about healing. That's the job we signed up for. It's not about judging and condemning people you don't even know, while putting oneself on a self righteous pedestal.

bingohbangoh 5y ago

Fwiw my Uncle is a nurse in North NJ and says this “wave” is nothing. Small uptick over last summer. Nothing like last April when it first hit.

dralley 5y ago
Your Uncle needs to understand that just because North NJ isn't seeing much of a surge, doesn't mean there isn't a surge. The surge is happening on the Gulf Coast, Arkansas, and Missouri. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
dennis_jeeves 5y ago
Hey thanks, first hand comments like your's help, where misinformation the norm.

selimthegrim 5y ago

There are plenty of healthcare staff vocally unvaccinated in Louisiana themselves, I wonder how they feel about those patients.