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> how Richard Stallman got treated for a couple of offhand comments That's quite misleading. Richard Stallman was criticised for a repeated pattern of behaviou

by orra 5y ago

> how Richard Stallman got treated for a couple of offhand comments That's quite misleading. Richard Stallman was criticised for a repeated pattern of behaviour. Allegedly, according to many witnesses, he harassed and coerced women for decades.

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
This is not what happened. The mass attack on Stallman happened after Selam Jie Gano wrote her hate piece[0] full of half-truths and manipulations that later were quoted by the media as "Stallman is defending Epstein" whereas the opposite was true. When I compared what RMS actually wrote with what the press reported, I was appalled - it's as if people collectively lost their ability to read. [0] https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-fec6ec210794 https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-fec6ec21...
- sasaf5 5y ago
  Stallman tried to bring reason to an emotion's fight... From [0]: "I’m writing this because I’m too angry to work."
- orra 5y ago
  Again, as I said: Stallman allegedly has a pattern of troubling behaviour going back decades. Not just troubling words, either, but actual behaviour. Stallman's crass words about consent, re sex-traffic teenagers, was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
  - pydry 5y ago
    >Stallman allegedly has a pattern of troubling behaviour going back decades The vagueness in your comment mirrors the vagueness in the stories that tend to accuse Stallman of "troubling behavior". They do mention a couple of examples of things that could imply sexual harassment if you squint (e.g. that business card) but what the examples really tend to show when you look at them independently of the hit piece they inhabit is that stallman is kind of cringey. This is what happens when you make powerful enemies. This is how you do character assassination. Hell, there were stories like this about Bill Gates too.
    - orra 5y ago
      > vagueness > could imply sexual harassment [only] if you squint > character assassination Complete hyperbole. As I said in another thread, threatening suicide at somebody because they won't date you is neither "vague" nor "cringey": it's straight up emotional abuse and coercion.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - pydry 5y ago
        His recollection: "Betsy S met me at a lunch around 40 years ago. I am sure her recounting of her recollections is sincere, but she must have misunderstood the last thing I said to her. She said she didn't want an acquaintance with me. That no, on top of so many noes from others, impelled me to express despair; she seems to have misconstrued that as a demand. Betsy S, I regret that this misunderstanding caused you distress. I never intended to demand anything of you. I only ever wished you well. " I could see the argument in calling this emotional abuse if there was a pattern of doing this, especially to partners, but there isn't. It's almost always used as a form of emotional blackmail in toxic relationships or with children. It is effective in that context and a common form of abuse. What this looks more like is the cynical exploitation of a singular expression of, yes, cringey vulnerability from 40 years in the past used to try and cancel RMS with a grand old witch hunt. Now that's emotional abuse.
pydry 5y ago
I read a couple of those accusations. The specific examples that they highlighted (as opposed to the vague ones they implied were so much worse) painted him as a bit creepy as sad while trying to depict him at a high level as a Harvey Weinstein type guy, which he SO clearly isnt. Bill Gates also had similar accusations thrown at him right after his divorce that intimated vague accusations of harassment by nameless individuals and one specific example of a woman (also nameless, but probably real) whom he asked out to lunch. It was clearly a hit piece that didnt take (though by whom it's hard to say).
- orra 5y ago
  Stallman told a woman he would kill himself if she wouldn't date him. That's not just 'sad', as you call it. That's abusive emotional manipulation. And no, neither depression nor autism excuse such behaviour.
  - pydry 5y ago
    This is news to me. Do you have a source? Not to put too fine a point on it but google revealed exactly one source for this rumor. You : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26574487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26574487
    - orra 5y ago
      Er, if you found my previous post criticising his behaviour, you should have found the article I cited previously. Here is the article link again: https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-appendix-a-a7e41e784f88 https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-appendix... Specifically, here is one of many accusations in that article: > When I was a teen freshman, I went to a buffet lunch at an Indian restaurant in Central Square with a graduate student friend and others from the AI lab. I don’t know if he and I were the last two left, but at a table with only the two of us, Richard Stallman told me of his misery and that he’d kill himself if I didn’t go out with him. > I felt bad for him and also uncomfortable and manipulated. I did not like being put in that position — suddenly responsible for an “important” man. What had I done to get into this situation? I decided I could not be responsible for his living or dying, and would have to accept him killing himself. I declined further contact. > He was not a man of his word or he’d be long dead.

by orra 5y ago

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago

This is not what happened. The mass attack on Stallman happened after Selam Jie Gano wrote her hate piece[0] full of half-truths and manipulations that later were quoted by the media as "Stallman is defending Epstein" whereas the opposite was true. When I compared what RMS actually wrote with what the press reported, I was appalled - it's as if people collectively lost their ability to read. [0] https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-fec6ec210794 https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-fec6ec21...

sasaf5 5y ago
Stallman tried to bring reason to an emotion's fight... From [0]: "I’m writing this because I’m too angry to work."
orra 5y ago
Again, as I said: Stallman allegedly has a pattern of troubling behaviour going back decades. Not just troubling words, either, but actual behaviour. Stallman's crass words about consent, re sex-traffic teenagers, was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
- pydry 5y ago
  >Stallman allegedly has a pattern of troubling behaviour going back decades The vagueness in your comment mirrors the vagueness in the stories that tend to accuse Stallman of "troubling behavior". They do mention a couple of examples of things that could imply sexual harassment if you squint (e.g. that business card) but what the examples really tend to show when you look at them independently of the hit piece they inhabit is that stallman is kind of cringey. This is what happens when you make powerful enemies. This is how you do character assassination. Hell, there were stories like this about Bill Gates too.
  - orra 5y ago
    > vagueness > could imply sexual harassment [only] if you squint > character assassination Complete hyperbole. As I said in another thread, threatening suicide at somebody because they won't date you is neither "vague" nor "cringey": it's straight up emotional abuse and coercion.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - pydry 5y ago
      His recollection: "Betsy S met me at a lunch around 40 years ago. I am sure her recounting of her recollections is sincere, but she must have misunderstood the last thing I said to her. She said she didn't want an acquaintance with me. That no, on top of so many noes from others, impelled me to express despair; she seems to have misconstrued that as a demand. Betsy S, I regret that this misunderstanding caused you distress. I never intended to demand anything of you. I only ever wished you well. " I could see the argument in calling this emotional abuse if there was a pattern of doing this, especially to partners, but there isn't. It's almost always used as a form of emotional blackmail in toxic relationships or with children. It is effective in that context and a common form of abuse. What this looks more like is the cynical exploitation of a singular expression of, yes, cringey vulnerability from 40 years in the past used to try and cancel RMS with a grand old witch hunt. Now that's emotional abuse.

pydry 5y ago

I read a couple of those accusations. The specific examples that they highlighted (as opposed to the vague ones they implied were so much worse) painted him as a bit creepy as sad while trying to depict him at a high level as a Harvey Weinstein type guy, which he SO clearly isnt. Bill Gates also had similar accusations thrown at him right after his divorce that intimated vague accusations of harassment by nameless individuals and one specific example of a woman (also nameless, but probably real) whom he asked out to lunch. It was clearly a hit piece that didnt take (though by whom it's hard to say).

orra 5y ago
Stallman told a woman he would kill himself if she wouldn't date him. That's not just 'sad', as you call it. That's abusive emotional manipulation. And no, neither depression nor autism excuse such behaviour.
- pydry 5y ago
  This is news to me. Do you have a source? Not to put too fine a point on it but google revealed exactly one source for this rumor. You : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26574487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26574487
  - orra 5y ago
    Er, if you found my previous post criticising his behaviour, you should have found the article I cited previously. Here is the article link again: https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-appendix-a-a7e41e784f88 https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-appendix... Specifically, here is one of many accusations in that article: > When I was a teen freshman, I went to a buffet lunch at an Indian restaurant in Central Square with a graduate student friend and others from the AI lab. I don’t know if he and I were the last two left, but at a table with only the two of us, Richard Stallman told me of his misery and that he’d kill himself if I didn’t go out with him. > I felt bad for him and also uncomfortable and manipulated. I did not like being put in that position — suddenly responsible for an “important” man. What had I done to get into this situation? I decided I could not be responsible for his living or dying, and would have to accept him killing himself. I declined further contact. > He was not a man of his word or he’d be long dead.