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I don't understand why people are so obsessed over potential long term effects of vaccines while completely ignoring the potential long term effects of covid. T

by loicd 5y ago

I don't understand why people are so obsessed over potential long term effects of vaccines while completely ignoring the potential long term effects of covid. There are no examples of vaccines with long term side effects. On the other hand, there are viruses like HPV that despite producing essentially no symptoms cause cancer in the long run. Sars-cov-2 is a new virus. Nobody knows its long term effects. Even asymptomatic covid cases may have damage to their lungs. Given how contagious covid is, the choice really is between covid and the vaccine, and the vaccine definitely looks like the safer choice.

effie 5y ago
> I don't understand why people are so obsessed over potential long term effects of vaccines while completely ignoring the potential long term effects of covid. I don't know anyone obsessed but: the issue is present. The rollout was quick and we don't have 10 years of data and the pharma got their immunity. If pharma isn't confident in safety of their product, it's safe to assume they know or are afraid that some significant percentage of nasty cases will happen. > There are no examples of vaccines with long term side effects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain%E2%80%93Barr%C3%A9_syndrome#Vaccine_onset https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain%E2%80%93Barr%C3%A9_sy... If there can be bad effects like GB syndrome as far as in 6 weeks, there can be longer term effects as well. With COVID vaccines it hasn't been very long yet. Standard studies of vaccines take 10 or more years. I like that cautious approach. > Sars-cov-2 is a new virus. Nobody knows its long term effects. Yes, the same as for vaccines. Hopefully we will know in the future. > Even asymptomatic covid cases may have damage to their lungs. Given how contagious covid is, the choice really is between covid and the vaccine, and the vaccine definitely looks like the safer choice. COVID is very contagious if you believe that positive PCR test means you have COVID. Of course, that's not how disease in general is diagnosed; symptoms are the telltale of sickness, and based on those, COVID is not that bad. Of course, there is the possibility that prolonged presence of virus in these OK persons will wreak havoc with their health in the coming years. But this is hypothetical now and not enough to scare major part of the population.
- loicd 5y ago
  I know about GB syndrome. I do not consider that to be "long term". When I got my first dose, many people had already been fully vaccinated for more than 6 weeks and I personally knew quite a few of them. There was nothing to worry about. On the other hand, I've actually been told by some people I know that the vaccine is going to kill me in a couple years through some mysterious unspecified long term side effect. There are no examples of a vaccine doing that, no proposed mechanism for that, and the whole argument boils down to "we do not have 10 years of data so we do not know for sure that it is not the case". Well, we do not have 10 years of data on the long term side effects of getting infected by Sars-cov-2 either. I point out the asymmetry as these are the same people saying that covid is not that bad. > COVID is very contagious if you believe that positive PCR test means you have COVID. I'm startled. Are you nitpicking over covid (the disease) vs sars-cov-2 (the virus)? Of course if you have a positive PCR test it means that you are infected by the virus. Whether or not you have symptoms is irrelevant when we are talking about long term side effects. Think about HIV or the cancer inducing HPV strains. Again, even if you are asymptomatic you may get lung damage from covid. I am not saying that there are long term consequences to that, but you do not know that, and there are no less reasons to believe that than to believe in any long term side effects of the vaccine. edit: typos
  - effie 5y ago
    Yes I made the distinction because "very contagious" is scary but infections are not, most healthy people handle them well and only some get COVID. I agree with you that long-terms effects are unknown at this point, both for the virus and the vaccine. The important point is I can't choose to not get the virus, but I can choose to not get the vaccine.
    - loicd 5y ago
      > The important point is I can't choose to not get the virus, but I can choose to not get the vaccine. I disagree. You can choose not to be affected by the virus by taking the vaccine. That's the whole point of the vaccine. So the question really is: what are the odds that something bad happens to me with the vaccine and with the virus. Since there are no reasons to think that there will be long term effects with the vaccine, and at worst, no more reasons than with the virus, one has to look at the short term and this clearly favors the vaccine.
deleted 5y ago
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by loicd 5y ago

effie 5y ago

> I don't understand why people are so obsessed over potential long term effects of vaccines while completely ignoring the potential long term effects of covid. I don't know anyone obsessed but: the issue is present. The rollout was quick and we don't have 10 years of data and the pharma got their immunity. If pharma isn't confident in safety of their product, it's safe to assume they know or are afraid that some significant percentage of nasty cases will happen. > There are no examples of vaccines with long term side effects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain%E2%80%93Barr%C3%A9_syndrome#Vaccine_onset https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain%E2%80%93Barr%C3%A9_sy... If there can be bad effects like GB syndrome as far as in 6 weeks, there can be longer term effects as well. With COVID vaccines it hasn't been very long yet. Standard studies of vaccines take 10 or more years. I like that cautious approach. > Sars-cov-2 is a new virus. Nobody knows its long term effects. Yes, the same as for vaccines. Hopefully we will know in the future. > Even asymptomatic covid cases may have damage to their lungs. Given how contagious covid is, the choice really is between covid and the vaccine, and the vaccine definitely looks like the safer choice. COVID is very contagious if you believe that positive PCR test means you have COVID. Of course, that's not how disease in general is diagnosed; symptoms are the telltale of sickness, and based on those, COVID is not that bad. Of course, there is the possibility that prolonged presence of virus in these OK persons will wreak havoc with their health in the coming years. But this is hypothetical now and not enough to scare major part of the population.

loicd 5y ago
I know about GB syndrome. I do not consider that to be "long term". When I got my first dose, many people had already been fully vaccinated for more than 6 weeks and I personally knew quite a few of them. There was nothing to worry about. On the other hand, I've actually been told by some people I know that the vaccine is going to kill me in a couple years through some mysterious unspecified long term side effect. There are no examples of a vaccine doing that, no proposed mechanism for that, and the whole argument boils down to "we do not have 10 years of data so we do not know for sure that it is not the case". Well, we do not have 10 years of data on the long term side effects of getting infected by Sars-cov-2 either. I point out the asymmetry as these are the same people saying that covid is not that bad. > COVID is very contagious if you believe that positive PCR test means you have COVID. I'm startled. Are you nitpicking over covid (the disease) vs sars-cov-2 (the virus)? Of course if you have a positive PCR test it means that you are infected by the virus. Whether or not you have symptoms is irrelevant when we are talking about long term side effects. Think about HIV or the cancer inducing HPV strains. Again, even if you are asymptomatic you may get lung damage from covid. I am not saying that there are long term consequences to that, but you do not know that, and there are no less reasons to believe that than to believe in any long term side effects of the vaccine. edit: typos
- effie 5y ago
  Yes I made the distinction because "very contagious" is scary but infections are not, most healthy people handle them well and only some get COVID. I agree with you that long-terms effects are unknown at this point, both for the virus and the vaccine. The important point is I can't choose to not get the virus, but I can choose to not get the vaccine.
  - loicd 5y ago
    > The important point is I can't choose to not get the virus, but I can choose to not get the vaccine. I disagree. You can choose not to be affected by the virus by taking the vaccine. That's the whole point of the vaccine. So the question really is: what are the odds that something bad happens to me with the vaccine and with the virus. Since there are no reasons to think that there will be long term effects with the vaccine, and at worst, no more reasons than with the virus, one has to look at the short term and this clearly favors the vaccine.

deleted 5y ago

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