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These are the two comments below yours: https://i.imgur.com/o8c9ZPm.png https://i.imgur.com/o8c9ZPm.png While most efforts by the Chinese government to distort

These are the two comments below yours: https://i.imgur.com/o8c9ZPm.png https://i.imgur.com/o8c9ZPm.png While most efforts by the Chinese government to distort and degrade online communications have been focused domestically: https://www.propublica.org/article/leaked-documents-show-how-chinas-army-of-paid-internet-trolls-helped-censor-the-coronavirus https://www.propublica.org/article/leaked-documents-show-how... There is evidence they are starting to turn their guns outward: https://www.cfr.org/blog/chinas-internet-trolls-go-global https://www.cfr.org/blog/chinas-internet-trolls-go-global But there is an uncomfortable truth behind all this. Regular, non-government backed Chinese citizens seem to often be so fiercely "patriotic" - they promote gov propaganda largely for free. There is no need to have a Russian-style troll farm if you can deputize a million Chinese living in the west to be active on Twitter promoting government narratives for fun.

uCantCauseUCant 5y ago
The glass heart citizens have no choice. They participate or grandpa and grandma still living in the mainland get it.
hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
Yes, and this is something to worry about, not some small network. Recently China said they would nuke Japan time after time if they decide to protect Taiwan against Chinese invasion. I'm afraid many ordinary Chinese citizens would be in favor of this decision because they simply believe their government.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- fortuna86 5y ago
  Or the recent attack on foreign media in China: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202107/1229947.shtml https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202107/1229947.shtml When NYT/WSJ/BBC etc weren't blocked in China, they had incredible high trust #'s. Now the government says they are bad (after blocking them), the public all falls in line with that opinion. I worry about what the Chinese government will do when they know they can make or remake public opinion so easily and effectively.
  - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
    NYT/SWJ/BBC used to have much more rounded coverage of China. Look at their China coverage before and after four years of Trump. The difference is stark. The entire political environment regarding China shifted drastically during the Trump administration, and that's reflected in both opinion polling and media coverage.
    - fortuna86 5y ago
      Again, if you were actually watching NYT/WSJ*/BBC, you'd know they were tougher on Trump in most cases than China 2016-20. But I see you have a narrative that i'm not going to penetrate, so lets leave it here. Have a nice day.
dirtyid 5y ago
>turn their guns outward Different kinds of calibre guns, so far PRC has not brought out the big ones nor firing with intent to kill. PRC foreign propaganda is still overwhelmingly boring "tell china story well", distinctively different from Russian troll farms. They're fundamentally different attack vectors. Both also influence diaspora, as does every country. There's just more Chinese abroad with perspective of both systems, and frankly the western narrative is frequently blatantly misinformed that most don't see defending the homeland as promoting illiberalism. Most are shocked at how quickly liberal minds can be brainwashed despite free media. Still, actual current day analysis shows PRC is doing very little relative to other players contrary to these headlines. Maybe still developing capabilities, or keeping options in reserve. >counter-measures IMO this is just an asymmetry between liberal and illiberal systems that can't be bridged without the former adopting tools from the latter - which by all accounts is happening, i.e. the China Initiative is Mccarthyism / red scare redux. Kill chicken to scare monkey works everywhere. Manufactured consent like this article overblowing actual state of PRC influence ops which is continuation of coordinated anti-China reporting since Trump. As always fight propaganda with propaganda, but ultimately, diaspora / immigrants in western countries have freedom to root for their homeland. This includes pro-CCP PRC nationals, and even the ones who renounce PRC citizenship after naturalization. >As far as coordinated pro-CCP behavior on HN My general feeling of the "coordinated pro-CCP" phenomenon is that there are many pro-China diaspora in western platforms whose threshold for engaging anti-China pieces is to downvote and move on. Some spaces (like tech) have more Chinese than baseline, so you'd expect to see the effect multiplied. IMO most do it for themselves for tribalism, which is natural behaviour. I don't subscribe that there's anything ironic about PRC nationalists hoping over GFC to "enjoy" free speech. VPN access is cheap, use not strictly enforced, accessing western internet is not some verboten activity like many westerners envisions it to be, it's entertainment. It's like using VPN to circumvent geofenced media, except for nationalists who like to troll. Reality is there's much more Chinese with English fluency and hopping the GFC is much easier than vice versa. The amount of westerners who have mandarin fluency and ability to comment on weibo is miniscule. And they don't need to since lots of pro-China diaspora / tankies on western platforms to troll, whereas Chinese nationals have to actively seek westerners over GFC to troll. VPN is just a premium subscription to participate in another cultural war. Culture wars are sad.

uCantCauseUCant 5y ago

The glass heart citizens have no choice. They participate or grandpa and grandma still living in the mainland get it.

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago

Yes, and this is something to worry about, not some small network. Recently China said they would nuke Japan time after time if they decide to protect Taiwan against Chinese invasion. I'm afraid many ordinary Chinese citizens would be in favor of this decision because they simply believe their government.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
fortuna86 5y ago
Or the recent attack on foreign media in China: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202107/1229947.shtml https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202107/1229947.shtml When NYT/WSJ/BBC etc weren't blocked in China, they had incredible high trust #'s. Now the government says they are bad (after blocking them), the public all falls in line with that opinion. I worry about what the Chinese government will do when they know they can make or remake public opinion so easily and effectively.
- DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
  NYT/SWJ/BBC used to have much more rounded coverage of China. Look at their China coverage before and after four years of Trump. The difference is stark. The entire political environment regarding China shifted drastically during the Trump administration, and that's reflected in both opinion polling and media coverage.
  - fortuna86 5y ago
    Again, if you were actually watching NYT/WSJ*/BBC, you'd know they were tougher on Trump in most cases than China 2016-20. But I see you have a narrative that i'm not going to penetrate, so lets leave it here. Have a nice day.

dirtyid 5y ago

>turn their guns outward Different kinds of calibre guns, so far PRC has not brought out the big ones nor firing with intent to kill. PRC foreign propaganda is still overwhelmingly boring "tell china story well", distinctively different from Russian troll farms. They're fundamentally different attack vectors. Both also influence diaspora, as does every country. There's just more Chinese abroad with perspective of both systems, and frankly the western narrative is frequently blatantly misinformed that most don't see defending the homeland as promoting illiberalism. Most are shocked at how quickly liberal minds can be brainwashed despite free media. Still, actual current day analysis shows PRC is doing very little relative to other players contrary to these headlines. Maybe still developing capabilities, or keeping options in reserve. >counter-measures IMO this is just an asymmetry between liberal and illiberal systems that can't be bridged without the former adopting tools from the latter - which by all accounts is happening, i.e. the China Initiative is Mccarthyism / red scare redux. Kill chicken to scare monkey works everywhere. Manufactured consent like this article overblowing actual state of PRC influence ops which is continuation of coordinated anti-China reporting since Trump. As always fight propaganda with propaganda, but ultimately, diaspora / immigrants in western countries have freedom to root for their homeland. This includes pro-CCP PRC nationals, and even the ones who renounce PRC citizenship after naturalization. >As far as coordinated pro-CCP behavior on HN My general feeling of the "coordinated pro-CCP" phenomenon is that there are many pro-China diaspora in western platforms whose threshold for engaging anti-China pieces is to downvote and move on. Some spaces (like tech) have more Chinese than baseline, so you'd expect to see the effect multiplied. IMO most do it for themselves for tribalism, which is natural behaviour. I don't subscribe that there's anything ironic about PRC nationalists hoping over GFC to "enjoy" free speech. VPN access is cheap, use not strictly enforced, accessing western internet is not some verboten activity like many westerners envisions it to be, it's entertainment. It's like using VPN to circumvent geofenced media, except for nationalists who like to troll. Reality is there's much more Chinese with English fluency and hopping the GFC is much easier than vice versa. The amount of westerners who have mandarin fluency and ability to comment on weibo is miniscule. And they don't need to since lots of pro-China diaspora / tankies on western platforms to troll, whereas Chinese nationals have to actively seek westerners over GFC to troll. VPN is just a premium subscription to participate in another cultural war. Culture wars are sad.