4 ms·

We allow parents to make decisions for children up to a certain age. I'm definitely not arguing that. It is about me. A population is made up of individual p

by desine 5y ago

We allow parents to make decisions for children up to a certain age. I'm definitely not arguing that. It is about me. A population is made up of individual people. Those individual people have rights. Given a choice of a population of X size who surrender the rights to govern their body, vs a population of free willed humans of (X - (00.03 * X)), I would gladly take the latter, including as a casualty. Humanity under authoritarianism is never morally acceptable, regardless of how benevolent my dictator appears to be.

nl 5y ago
This is an argument against tyranny, but it isn't an argument against vaccination. From your comment: > Because if I put something in my body only because my master tells me to, I am a slave. So don't do it for that reason. Do it because it will save your (and other people's) life. That's an entirely reasonable position to take.
- desine 5y ago
  Sure, but it's not the only reasonable position to take.
  - shaklee3 5y ago
    What are your concerns if you were to do it? Is it purely to take a stance?
    - desine 5y ago
      Concern over long term effects of mRNA therapy, of which I've found little evidence Concern over long term effects of the spike protein presented by COVID-19, both attached to the virus and free-floating within my body as a result of mRNA therapy. Concern over long term ability for my cells to accurately recreate the spike protein. From what I've read, this is actually low concern on my scale, the capping seems pretty thorough. Concern over my body creating an immunoresponse to organs/nearby cells/systems where the spike protein has accumulated Concern over my immune system being able to form a strong defense in the future over different coronaviruses when it's been trained to work outside it's normal operational parameters. Concern over the hubris of mankind and the house of cards that is our trust in the peer review system. Concern over the lack of experiment replication done in the modern medical fields Concern over the fact that some of these companies have shady history, including knowingly selling me asbestos to keep my testicle dry during the summer heat. Concern over the lack of transparency in the bridges between pharma lobbyists and government, politicians and media, and media and pharma corps. Concern over the lack of transparency in more broader sense. Concern over the obvious astroturfing on social media, of multiple "influencers" posting the same copy and pasted messages, the bot responses, the general fiscal funding behind this debate. Concern over the future implications of us accepting, as a society, the weaponization of fear, and the saving graces of corporations. Concern over our willingness to change our lives in drastic manners because of the justification that it may save a life, which I see as an endless justification opportunity for future world leaders. Concern over turning fear into a virtue.
      - shaklee3 5y ago
        This is why the pandemic is nowhere near over. People who don't read data taking a political stance just because it's their right.
        desine 5y ago
        definitely not the issue of people handwaving away concerns as being unfounded or uneducated. thanks for showing me the truth.
        daddylongstroke 5y ago
        I read data. A friend is working on the vaccine for Novavax - him and his family will not be vaccinated anytime within this decade. This is very quickly turning into an endemic virus cycle like most others throughout history. We've been trying to eradicate the coronavirus family for at least 70 years with 0 results. This is a leaky vaccine, and breakthrough case numbers reported by Pfizer to the FDA don't paint a rosy picture (somewhere between 14-24%; they don't know, they didn't really test those people in their initial trials, they just assumed they had Covid based on symptoms, which is why they keep stressing that even though you've had your vaccinations, you're still at risk of infection and spreading the disease). Look at the numbers of fully vaccinated people in Israel currently hospitalized. I'd rather NYC enforced high quality diet and mandatory exercise than a newfangled vaccine. But I know, people just want the magic pill....every year...for the rest of their lives.
        shaklee3 5y ago
        https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-644288348135 https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-644288348135 Your anecdotal evidence from a friend isn't data.
        daddylongstroke 5y ago
        Not just my friend, my friend. Everybody who worked on encapsulating the mRNA vaccine knows why the compound was not allowed for human use previously, and why they've all had to show the same diligence (because it caused clots which lead to stroke-outs and heart attacks in animal trials). Your link shows what exactly? That yes, the majority of people with Covid currently, and majority of hospitalized (severely ill other words) are fully vaccinated.
- grepfru_it 5y ago
  >save your life How do you know he wasn't already infected and thus has natural immunity? So how is this saving her or his life? Why aren't we testing for those who actually need this vaccine or not (because antibody tests don't work very well and no one wants to improve that metric because thats not where the money is)

by desine 5y ago

nl 5y ago

This is an argument against tyranny, but it isn't an argument against vaccination. From your comment: > Because if I put something in my body only because my master tells me to, I am a slave. So don't do it for that reason. Do it because it will save your (and other people's) life. That's an entirely reasonable position to take.

desine 5y ago
Sure, but it's not the only reasonable position to take.
- shaklee3 5y ago
  What are your concerns if you were to do it? Is it purely to take a stance?
  - desine 5y ago
    Concern over long term effects of mRNA therapy, of which I've found little evidence Concern over long term effects of the spike protein presented by COVID-19, both attached to the virus and free-floating within my body as a result of mRNA therapy. Concern over long term ability for my cells to accurately recreate the spike protein. From what I've read, this is actually low concern on my scale, the capping seems pretty thorough. Concern over my body creating an immunoresponse to organs/nearby cells/systems where the spike protein has accumulated Concern over my immune system being able to form a strong defense in the future over different coronaviruses when it's been trained to work outside it's normal operational parameters. Concern over the hubris of mankind and the house of cards that is our trust in the peer review system. Concern over the lack of experiment replication done in the modern medical fields Concern over the fact that some of these companies have shady history, including knowingly selling me asbestos to keep my testicle dry during the summer heat. Concern over the lack of transparency in the bridges between pharma lobbyists and government, politicians and media, and media and pharma corps. Concern over the lack of transparency in more broader sense. Concern over the obvious astroturfing on social media, of multiple "influencers" posting the same copy and pasted messages, the bot responses, the general fiscal funding behind this debate. Concern over the future implications of us accepting, as a society, the weaponization of fear, and the saving graces of corporations. Concern over our willingness to change our lives in drastic manners because of the justification that it may save a life, which I see as an endless justification opportunity for future world leaders. Concern over turning fear into a virtue.
    - shaklee3 5y ago
      This is why the pandemic is nowhere near over. People who don't read data taking a political stance just because it's their right.
      - desine 5y ago
        definitely not the issue of people handwaving away concerns as being unfounded or uneducated. thanks for showing me the truth.
      - daddylongstroke 5y ago
        I read data. A friend is working on the vaccine for Novavax - him and his family will not be vaccinated anytime within this decade. This is very quickly turning into an endemic virus cycle like most others throughout history. We've been trying to eradicate the coronavirus family for at least 70 years with 0 results. This is a leaky vaccine, and breakthrough case numbers reported by Pfizer to the FDA don't paint a rosy picture (somewhere between 14-24%; they don't know, they didn't really test those people in their initial trials, they just assumed they had Covid based on symptoms, which is why they keep stressing that even though you've had your vaccinations, you're still at risk of infection and spreading the disease). Look at the numbers of fully vaccinated people in Israel currently hospitalized. I'd rather NYC enforced high quality diet and mandatory exercise than a newfangled vaccine. But I know, people just want the magic pill....every year...for the rest of their lives.
        shaklee3 5y ago
        https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-644288348135 https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-644288348135 Your anecdotal evidence from a friend isn't data.
        daddylongstroke 5y ago
        Not just my friend, my friend. Everybody who worked on encapsulating the mRNA vaccine knows why the compound was not allowed for human use previously, and why they've all had to show the same diligence (because it caused clots which lead to stroke-outs and heart attacks in animal trials). Your link shows what exactly? That yes, the majority of people with Covid currently, and majority of hospitalized (severely ill other words) are fully vaccinated.
grepfru_it 5y ago
>save your life How do you know he wasn't already infected and thus has natural immunity? So how is this saving her or his life? Why aren't we testing for those who actually need this vaccine or not (because antibody tests don't work very well and no one wants to improve that metric because thats not where the money is)