6 ms·

>I've still not heard a single good argument for not vaccinating despite reading most anti-vax comments on this post. Because if I put something in my body onl

by desine 5y ago

>I've still not heard a single good argument for not vaccinating despite reading most anti-vax comments on this post. Because if I put something in my body only because my master tells me to, I am a slave. Through and through. Bodily autonomy is absolute. It's different than the Modern American definition of slavery, which is mostly based on the New World forms of slavery, which are related to but different than the Old World forms of slavery. But they are all slavery. Either you have control of your corpus or you do not.

shaklee3 5y ago
You were vaccinated as a child and you're presumably perfectly fine. And it's not about you. It's about not being selfish to end a pandemic that affects other people a lot worse than it does you.
- desine 5y ago
  We allow parents to make decisions for children up to a certain age. I'm definitely not arguing that. It is about me. A population is made up of individual people. Those individual people have rights. Given a choice of a population of X size who surrender the rights to govern their body, vs a population of free willed humans of (X - (00.03 * X)), I would gladly take the latter, including as a casualty. Humanity under authoritarianism is never morally acceptable, regardless of how benevolent my dictator appears to be.
  - nl 5y ago
    This is an argument against tyranny, but it isn't an argument against vaccination. From your comment: > Because if I put something in my body only because my master tells me to, I am a slave. So don't do it for that reason. Do it because it will save your (and other people's) life. That's an entirely reasonable position to take.
    - desine 5y ago
      Sure, but it's not the only reasonable position to take.
      - shaklee3 5y ago
        What are your concerns if you were to do it? Is it purely to take a stance?
        desine 5y ago
        Concern over long term effects of mRNA therapy, of which I've found little evidence Concern over long term effects of the spike protein presented by COVID-19, both attached to the virus and free-floating within my body as a result of mRNA therapy. Concern over long term ability for my cells to accurately recreate the spike protein. From what I've read, this is actually low concern on my scale, the capping seems pretty thorough. Concern over my body creating an immunoresponse to organs/nearby cells/systems where the spike protein has accumulated Concern over my immune system being able to form a strong defense in the future over different coronaviruses when it's been trained to work outside it's normal operational parameters. Concern over the hubris of mankind and the house of cards that is our trust in the peer review system. Concern over the lack of experiment replication done in the modern medical fields Concern over the fact that some of these companies have shady history, including knowingly selling me asbestos to keep my testicle dry during the summer heat. Concern over the lack of transparency in the bridges between pharma lobbyists and government, politicians and media, and media and pharma corps. Concern over the lack of transparency in more broader sense. Concern over the obvious astroturfing on social media, of multiple "influencers" posting the same copy and pasted messages, the bot responses, the general fiscal funding behind this debate. Concern over the future implications of us accepting, as a society, the weaponization of fear, and the saving graces of corporations. Concern over our willingness to change our lives in drastic manners because of the justification that it may save a life, which I see as an endless justification opportunity for future world leaders. Concern over turning fear into a virtue.
        5y ago
katbyte 5y ago
You have the choice to be vaccinated or not - businesses and have the choice to refuse to provide service to the unvaccinated, private property and all. And society has the right to insist on vaccines to participate. We all have rights and yours don’t cancel out others.
- desine 5y ago
  TLA is about a local government mandating that businesses check for vaccination status. That's infringing on rights of the businesses, "private property and all."
amanaplanacanal 5y ago
In the US, you most certainly do not. Are you unaware of drug laws, for example? By your logic, you are now and always have been a slave, and so is everyone else. What was once a useful word is now meaningless.

by desine 5y ago

shaklee3 5y ago

You were vaccinated as a child and you're presumably perfectly fine. And it's not about you. It's about not being selfish to end a pandemic that affects other people a lot worse than it does you.

desine 5y ago
We allow parents to make decisions for children up to a certain age. I'm definitely not arguing that. It is about me. A population is made up of individual people. Those individual people have rights. Given a choice of a population of X size who surrender the rights to govern their body, vs a population of free willed humans of (X - (00.03 * X)), I would gladly take the latter, including as a casualty. Humanity under authoritarianism is never morally acceptable, regardless of how benevolent my dictator appears to be.
- nl 5y ago
  This is an argument against tyranny, but it isn't an argument against vaccination. From your comment: > Because if I put something in my body only because my master tells me to, I am a slave. So don't do it for that reason. Do it because it will save your (and other people's) life. That's an entirely reasonable position to take.
  - desine 5y ago
    Sure, but it's not the only reasonable position to take.
    - shaklee3 5y ago
      What are your concerns if you were to do it? Is it purely to take a stance?
      - desine 5y ago
        Concern over long term effects of mRNA therapy, of which I've found little evidence Concern over long term effects of the spike protein presented by COVID-19, both attached to the virus and free-floating within my body as a result of mRNA therapy. Concern over long term ability for my cells to accurately recreate the spike protein. From what I've read, this is actually low concern on my scale, the capping seems pretty thorough. Concern over my body creating an immunoresponse to organs/nearby cells/systems where the spike protein has accumulated Concern over my immune system being able to form a strong defense in the future over different coronaviruses when it's been trained to work outside it's normal operational parameters. Concern over the hubris of mankind and the house of cards that is our trust in the peer review system. Concern over the lack of experiment replication done in the modern medical fields Concern over the fact that some of these companies have shady history, including knowingly selling me asbestos to keep my testicle dry during the summer heat. Concern over the lack of transparency in the bridges between pharma lobbyists and government, politicians and media, and media and pharma corps. Concern over the lack of transparency in more broader sense. Concern over the obvious astroturfing on social media, of multiple "influencers" posting the same copy and pasted messages, the bot responses, the general fiscal funding behind this debate. Concern over the future implications of us accepting, as a society, the weaponization of fear, and the saving graces of corporations. Concern over our willingness to change our lives in drastic manners because of the justification that it may save a life, which I see as an endless justification opportunity for future world leaders. Concern over turning fear into a virtue.
        5y ago

katbyte 5y ago

You have the choice to be vaccinated or not - businesses and have the choice to refuse to provide service to the unvaccinated, private property and all. And society has the right to insist on vaccines to participate. We all have rights and yours don’t cancel out others.

desine 5y ago
TLA is about a local government mandating that businesses check for vaccination status. That's infringing on rights of the businesses, "private property and all."

amanaplanacanal 5y ago

In the US, you most certainly do not. Are you unaware of drug laws, for example? By your logic, you are now and always have been a slave, and so is everyone else. What was once a useful word is now meaningless.