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Pretty interesting project. However, who really wants a "global menu bar". It made sense for the original mac, when people just used one app at a time. And it'

by fluxem 5y ago

Pretty interesting project. However, who really wants a "global menu bar". It made sense for the original mac, when people just used one app at a time. And it's left in the current MacOS for legacy reasons. But now people usually have multiple 27" monitors. So, instead of having menus where the app is, you need to move the mouse all the way to the top and then back. Im not sure why anyone would want to replicate it.

DavidSJ 5y ago
One advantage of a global menu bar is that items at the top of the screen are effectively an infinitely large target, so you can rapidly move the mouse to them without worrying about overshooting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law
- fluxem 5y ago
  But you want to select a specific menu and not just click somewhere on the whole menubar. So, it's no longer an infinitly large target and you need precision
  - infofarmer 5y ago
    They didn't say infinitely large in every direction. If you're on a Mac now, try quickly hitting the menu bar items (at the very top edge of the screen) vs the tabs (below the menu bar, not quite at the edge). I find the difference quite significant. Peculiarly, this convenience would flip to the opposite if the screen were touch-enabled!
  - comex 5y ago
    You need a precise angle but not a precise speed. I can't speak for mice myself, but on my MacBook Pro trackpad, this is still much faster. Indeed, if I try to get the mouse cursor from somewhere near the middle of the screen to somewhere near the top, unless I go very slowly, it's essentially impossible to do it without overshooting and hitting the top. At that point I can turn around and move the cursor back down to the spot I'm trying to hit, but that requires waiting a fraction of a second, or else the high speed I accumulated from accelerating quickly will 'bounce' off the top and send me too far back down. …Honestly, I don't know why the trackpad acceleration curve behaves that way. I've never consciously noticed this problem before right now, though, so it can't be that bad. Anyway, of course my experience also differs in that my MacBook Pro does not have a 27" monitor. I could be using a desktop with a large monitor, but I prefer to be able to work from any chair or couch or even lying on the floor. I can see why the global menu bar would be more of a hindrance with a large monitor. But speak for yourself about what people "usually" have. :)
kitsunesoba 5y ago
I like the menubar being a system-owned fixture (as it is for global menubars) because then there’s no reason for app developers to try to trim away menus or cram them in a “junk drawer” hamburger menu in the name of minimalism.
- marcellus23 5y ago
  this this this. On Windows, menu bars are few and far between because of this.
nvella 5y ago
I actually find the metaphor quite useful–as a developer I can develop a GUI application utilizing a common menu metaphor but _not_ always have a window open; essentially an application is a 'toolbox', presenting its tools via the global menu, and documents/'work' appear as windows. For context, I used Windows all my life before switching to Mac about six years ago, and I find this makes a lot more sense than one menu per window, where application developers often like to go their own way and implement their own menu metaphors.
throw0101a 5y ago
> However, who really wants a "global menu bar". It made sense for the original mac, when people just used one app at a time. Please still use one app at a time. Try examining what most people actually do: they hit maximize on each app and fill the screen. People that tile windows are the exception from my experience. > But now people usually have multiple 27" monitors. [citation needed] I'd be curious to see what the numbers are. How many people in call centres have that? How many accounting and HR departments?
eddieroger 5y ago
> However, who really wants a "global menu bar". Me? Even when I "use" multiple apps at the same time, I can only interact with one at at time in the current keyboard/mouse paradigm we're working in, and it's nice to know that when I need menu options, they're always in the same place - the top left. There's always a context menu available by right/ctrl clicking if I'm so inclined and it's properly implemented, but in my multiple-monitor setup, I like having the global menu bar for when keyboard commands don't cut it.

by fluxem 5y ago

DavidSJ 5y ago

One advantage of a global menu bar is that items at the top of the screen are effectively an infinitely large target, so you can rapidly move the mouse to them without worrying about overshooting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law

fluxem 5y ago
But you want to select a specific menu and not just click somewhere on the whole menubar. So, it's no longer an infinitly large target and you need precision
- infofarmer 5y ago
  They didn't say infinitely large in every direction. If you're on a Mac now, try quickly hitting the menu bar items (at the very top edge of the screen) vs the tabs (below the menu bar, not quite at the edge). I find the difference quite significant. Peculiarly, this convenience would flip to the opposite if the screen were touch-enabled!
- comex 5y ago
  You need a precise angle but not a precise speed. I can't speak for mice myself, but on my MacBook Pro trackpad, this is still much faster. Indeed, if I try to get the mouse cursor from somewhere near the middle of the screen to somewhere near the top, unless I go very slowly, it's essentially impossible to do it without overshooting and hitting the top. At that point I can turn around and move the cursor back down to the spot I'm trying to hit, but that requires waiting a fraction of a second, or else the high speed I accumulated from accelerating quickly will 'bounce' off the top and send me too far back down. …Honestly, I don't know why the trackpad acceleration curve behaves that way. I've never consciously noticed this problem before right now, though, so it can't be that bad. Anyway, of course my experience also differs in that my MacBook Pro does not have a 27" monitor. I could be using a desktop with a large monitor, but I prefer to be able to work from any chair or couch or even lying on the floor. I can see why the global menu bar would be more of a hindrance with a large monitor. But speak for yourself about what people "usually" have. :)

kitsunesoba 5y ago

I like the menubar being a system-owned fixture (as it is for global menubars) because then there’s no reason for app developers to try to trim away menus or cram them in a “junk drawer” hamburger menu in the name of minimalism.

marcellus23 5y ago
this this this. On Windows, menu bars are few and far between because of this.

nvella 5y ago

I actually find the metaphor quite useful–as a developer I can develop a GUI application utilizing a common menu metaphor but _not_ always have a window open; essentially an application is a 'toolbox', presenting its tools via the global menu, and documents/'work' appear as windows. For context, I used Windows all my life before switching to Mac about six years ago, and I find this makes a lot more sense than one menu per window, where application developers often like to go their own way and implement their own menu metaphors.

throw0101a 5y ago

> However, who really wants a "global menu bar". It made sense for the original mac, when people just used one app at a time. Please still use one app at a time. Try examining what most people actually do: they hit maximize on each app and fill the screen. People that tile windows are the exception from my experience. > But now people usually have multiple 27" monitors. [citation needed] I'd be curious to see what the numbers are. How many people in call centres have that? How many accounting and HR departments?

eddieroger 5y ago

> However, who really wants a "global menu bar". Me? Even when I "use" multiple apps at the same time, I can only interact with one at at time in the current keyboard/mouse paradigm we're working in, and it's nice to know that when I need menu options, they're always in the same place - the top left. There's always a context menu available by right/ctrl clicking if I'm so inclined and it's properly implemented, but in my multiple-monitor setup, I like having the global menu bar for when keyboard commands don't cut it.