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If you like this, I have some other innovations that you may be interested in: * A car that automatically pulls over when a police cruiser attempts to intercep

If you like this, I have some other innovations that you may be interested in: * A car that automatically pulls over when a police cruiser attempts to intercept you * A front door that unlocks when a cop knocks * A camera that uses AI to detect and prevent the photography of minors, police, and critical infrastructure * A Smart TV that counts the number of people in your living room to ensure you aren't performing an unauthorized public broadcast of copyrighted content Surely, at least one of those sounds ridiculous to you. As well-intentioned as this scanning may be, it violates a core principle of privacy and human autonomy. Your own device should not betray you. As technologists, just because we can do something doesn't mean we should.

nostromo 5y ago
No need for hypotheticals, 2020 was a huge win for the police state. The UK and Israel allowed cops to monitor cell phone locations to crack down on unlawful gatherings in private homes. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/17/israel-to-track-mobile-phones-of-suspected-coronavirus-cases https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/17/israel-to-trac... The problem with allowing this is that you’re paving the way for future tyrants to use it against us.
- hulitu 5y ago
  > The problem with allowing this is that you’re paving the way for future tyrants to use it against us. It's funny how everybody talk about the future. This is happenning now. Remember how a certain german guy took the power some 90 years ago ? He was elected.
  - leipert 5y ago
    Not your point, but: Technically he was Austrian by birth, stateless sind since 1925 and tried at least 7 times to get German citizenship before elected in 1932.
  - sharken 5y ago
    I trust we live in a different world today, but it is concerning to read about mandated vaccines to get a job and mandated contact-tracing in countries such as Germany.
    - avh02 5y ago
      Apps weren't mandated, restaurants and such are required to request you check in, but people didn't always fill them or otherwise filled them with junk (especially after they were abused)
- KirillPanov 5y ago
  Why does this surprise anybody? People nowadays voluntarily carry tracking devices. This will not stop getting worse until that behavior is denormalized. The power to be gained from abusing it is beyond irresistable. Expecting those in power to not abuse it is like expecting a heroin junkie to be a good pharmacist.
  - mdp2021 5y ago
    > People nowadays voluntarily carry tracking devices on the strict premise that tracking is exceptional fair use from a law enforcement agency. Do not mix up the voluntary accolites of Zuck and people who want tools. (The use of 'tools' in the sentence is an originally unintended pun. I will keep the term 'accolites', though tempted to replace it for the pun.)
ddtaylor 5y ago
I'm okay with all of those things. Keep everyone protected and safe.
- tibbon 5y ago
  That is a really esoteric flavor of boot you seem to be enjoying to lick there…
  - ddtaylor 5y ago
    Why do you not accept the trade-off to protect children but give up a little bit of "freedom"?
- josefx 5y ago
  How is that fourth point keeping anyone safe?
  - ddtaylor 5y ago
    It prevents the illegal distribution of copyrighted material.
    - josefx 5y ago
      I repeat how does that keep anyone safe?
      - ddtaylor 5y ago
        By enforcing the copyright laws that exist already to protect content creators from being counterfeited and ripped off by illegal scammers and bootleggers. Are you saying you don't agree with the concept of copyrights?
        josefx 5y ago
        How does showing Lion King at your kids birthday party qualify for any of that? I know I know, Disneys inability to collect money for every pair of eyes watching their movies during VHS times literally made it one of the poorest companies on the world. /s
whoknowswhat11 5y ago
A lot of folks here need to go into a city. People WILL be a fan of all of this if the alternative is lots of robbery / car theft etc etc. We see this globally. If the state is not offering security now - they will accept incredible craziness for security. One note - in most cases folks trust Apple MORE than they would for example the Trump administration. Food for thought.
- amarshall 5y ago
  I live in a major city and I’m a fan of none of these things. I’m only one data point, but yours is a sweeping and inaccurate generalization that “cities are frighteningly unsafe”. Maybe one trusts Apple more than <insert politician>, but they cannot so easily elect away Apple.
  - whoknowswhat11 5y ago
    Apple has generally locked things down successfully. There was concern about phone's being grabbed - street robberies. Regardless of whether you believe their were sweeping generalizations - apple ended up creating more power for themselves with their activation lock system. If they don't want to let you sell your phone to someone - they can block use of your phone. But folks trust them to operate the system reasonably, and so far so good there. They have locked down their app store very tightly for a variety of reasons including supposedly for security. Users have accepted that. Apple's competitors (google photos etc) generally are directly scannable in the cloud by google et al. Facebook and others routinely scan users photos. Youtube scans their videos etc. My guess is apple will explain why they are doing it and users are going to be happy. And yes, users are linking things like ring doorbells and home security video cameras together or registering them so that the police state can use them.
0xEFF 5y ago
Printers and scanners have refused to process imagines containing certain patterns of stars for decades and it seems to have worked out OK.
- amarshall 5y ago
  Could you elaborate?
  - sdan 5y ago
    Printers recognize patters of stars on currency notes and will not print them and sometimes even notify the police.
  - extropy 5y ago
    I suppose GP is referring to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code And https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation
- Teever 5y ago
  No it really hasn't worked out 'OK' because here we are now.
mrtksn 5y ago
All this feels like it's just matter of time. The technology is there, now we only need the motivation. If politicians decides that they want it now, they can simply orchestrate a media campaign and have it. The next time an "outrageous" act of crime is conducted, they can make sure that it stays at the media attention and be portrayed as "If we don't act now very bed things will happen", then slide in their solution. * Cars can automatically pull over by installing a cheap cut fuel cut switch that can be activated by short range radio. In many places people are used to add devices for toll collection anyway. People are also used to pay for regulatory inspections on their vehicles. * For the old cars, simply connect an NFC reader that unlocks the central lock system of a car by a master key. For the new cars, simply make manufacturers add a police master key. * Commercial drones are already stopping their users from flying over forbidden areas, simply extend that to smartphones. Smartphones have enough power and sensors to identify forbidden locations and persons. Add NFC kill switch, meaning the police can send a signal to lock down cameras. * There were reports of Smart TVs that record all the time, simply mandate it to all manufacturers and enforce automated inspection of the recordings.
hnick 5y ago
Uneven application of the law seems crucial to keep the system functioning and technology can erode that. Many simple laws, if enforced thoroughly and without prejudice, would become absolutely draconian. It is not even possible for a human to know all the laws we are meant to follow at all times, yet computers can.
echelon 5y ago
> Your own device should not betray you. Apple devices already betray their "owners", and they've been doing it for a long time. You can't repair them. You can't run your own software. You can't use a better, more compliant web browser. Businesses have to pay a 30% tax. Businesses are forced to use login with Apple and forfeit a customer relationship. Businesses have to dance to appease Apple. Their software gets banned, randomly flagged, or unapproved for deployment, sometimes completely on a whim. Soon, more iDevices and Apple Pay will lead to further entrenchment. Just like in the movie Demolition Man, everything will eventually be Apple. Your car, your movies, your music, your elected officials.
- quenix 5y ago
  While these things are reprehensible, I don't see much of them as "betraying" me, the user, as much as I do this new tool.

nostromo 5y ago

No need for hypotheticals, 2020 was a huge win for the police state. The UK and Israel allowed cops to monitor cell phone locations to crack down on unlawful gatherings in private homes. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/17/israel-to-track-mobile-phones-of-suspected-coronavirus-cases https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/17/israel-to-trac... The problem with allowing this is that you’re paving the way for future tyrants to use it against us.

hulitu 5y ago
> The problem with allowing this is that you’re paving the way for future tyrants to use it against us. It's funny how everybody talk about the future. This is happenning now. Remember how a certain german guy took the power some 90 years ago ? He was elected.
- leipert 5y ago
  Not your point, but: Technically he was Austrian by birth, stateless sind since 1925 and tried at least 7 times to get German citizenship before elected in 1932.
- sharken 5y ago
  I trust we live in a different world today, but it is concerning to read about mandated vaccines to get a job and mandated contact-tracing in countries such as Germany.
  - avh02 5y ago
    Apps weren't mandated, restaurants and such are required to request you check in, but people didn't always fill them or otherwise filled them with junk (especially after they were abused)
KirillPanov 5y ago
Why does this surprise anybody? People nowadays voluntarily carry tracking devices. This will not stop getting worse until that behavior is denormalized. The power to be gained from abusing it is beyond irresistable. Expecting those in power to not abuse it is like expecting a heroin junkie to be a good pharmacist.
- mdp2021 5y ago
  > People nowadays voluntarily carry tracking devices on the strict premise that tracking is exceptional fair use from a law enforcement agency. Do not mix up the voluntary accolites of Zuck and people who want tools. (The use of 'tools' in the sentence is an originally unintended pun. I will keep the term 'accolites', though tempted to replace it for the pun.)

ddtaylor 5y ago

I'm okay with all of those things. Keep everyone protected and safe.

tibbon 5y ago
That is a really esoteric flavor of boot you seem to be enjoying to lick there…
- ddtaylor 5y ago
  Why do you not accept the trade-off to protect children but give up a little bit of "freedom"?
josefx 5y ago
How is that fourth point keeping anyone safe?
- ddtaylor 5y ago
  It prevents the illegal distribution of copyrighted material.
  - josefx 5y ago
    I repeat how does that keep anyone safe?
    - ddtaylor 5y ago
      By enforcing the copyright laws that exist already to protect content creators from being counterfeited and ripped off by illegal scammers and bootleggers. Are you saying you don't agree with the concept of copyrights?
      - josefx 5y ago
        How does showing Lion King at your kids birthday party qualify for any of that? I know I know, Disneys inability to collect money for every pair of eyes watching their movies during VHS times literally made it one of the poorest companies on the world. /s

whoknowswhat11 5y ago

A lot of folks here need to go into a city. People WILL be a fan of all of this if the alternative is lots of robbery / car theft etc etc. We see this globally. If the state is not offering security now - they will accept incredible craziness for security. One note - in most cases folks trust Apple MORE than they would for example the Trump administration. Food for thought.

amarshall 5y ago
I live in a major city and I’m a fan of none of these things. I’m only one data point, but yours is a sweeping and inaccurate generalization that “cities are frighteningly unsafe”. Maybe one trusts Apple more than <insert politician>, but they cannot so easily elect away Apple.
- whoknowswhat11 5y ago
  Apple has generally locked things down successfully. There was concern about phone's being grabbed - street robberies. Regardless of whether you believe their were sweeping generalizations - apple ended up creating more power for themselves with their activation lock system. If they don't want to let you sell your phone to someone - they can block use of your phone. But folks trust them to operate the system reasonably, and so far so good there. They have locked down their app store very tightly for a variety of reasons including supposedly for security. Users have accepted that. Apple's competitors (google photos etc) generally are directly scannable in the cloud by google et al. Facebook and others routinely scan users photos. Youtube scans their videos etc. My guess is apple will explain why they are doing it and users are going to be happy. And yes, users are linking things like ring doorbells and home security video cameras together or registering them so that the police state can use them.

0xEFF 5y ago

Printers and scanners have refused to process imagines containing certain patterns of stars for decades and it seems to have worked out OK.

amarshall 5y ago
Could you elaborate?
- sdan 5y ago
  Printers recognize patters of stars on currency notes and will not print them and sometimes even notify the police.
- extropy 5y ago
  I suppose GP is referring to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code And https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation
Teever 5y ago
No it really hasn't worked out 'OK' because here we are now.

mrtksn 5y ago

All this feels like it's just matter of time. The technology is there, now we only need the motivation. If politicians decides that they want it now, they can simply orchestrate a media campaign and have it. The next time an "outrageous" act of crime is conducted, they can make sure that it stays at the media attention and be portrayed as "If we don't act now very bed things will happen", then slide in their solution. * Cars can automatically pull over by installing a cheap cut fuel cut switch that can be activated by short range radio. In many places people are used to add devices for toll collection anyway. People are also used to pay for regulatory inspections on their vehicles. * For the old cars, simply connect an NFC reader that unlocks the central lock system of a car by a master key. For the new cars, simply make manufacturers add a police master key. * Commercial drones are already stopping their users from flying over forbidden areas, simply extend that to smartphones. Smartphones have enough power and sensors to identify forbidden locations and persons. Add NFC kill switch, meaning the police can send a signal to lock down cameras. * There were reports of Smart TVs that record all the time, simply mandate it to all manufacturers and enforce automated inspection of the recordings.

hnick 5y ago

Uneven application of the law seems crucial to keep the system functioning and technology can erode that. Many simple laws, if enforced thoroughly and without prejudice, would become absolutely draconian. It is not even possible for a human to know all the laws we are meant to follow at all times, yet computers can.

echelon 5y ago

> Your own device should not betray you. Apple devices already betray their "owners", and they've been doing it for a long time. You can't repair them. You can't run your own software. You can't use a better, more compliant web browser. Businesses have to pay a 30% tax. Businesses are forced to use login with Apple and forfeit a customer relationship. Businesses have to dance to appease Apple. Their software gets banned, randomly flagged, or unapproved for deployment, sometimes completely on a whim. Soon, more iDevices and Apple Pay will lead to further entrenchment. Just like in the movie Demolition Man, everything will eventually be Apple. Your car, your movies, your music, your elected officials.

quenix 5y ago
While these things are reprehensible, I don't see much of them as "betraying" me, the user, as much as I do this new tool.