4 ms·

This is effectively a "think of the children argument". People with health complications will always be at higher risk of bad disease outcomes than the rest of

This is effectively a "think of the children argument". People with health complications will always be at higher risk of bad disease outcomes than the rest of the population. That includes the regular flu, too, and is pretty much guaranteed to include some form of COVID forever at this point. You don't get to use that as some kind of moral high ground to force your personal stance on everyone else. Educate people about the low risk and high benefit of getting vaccinated. Encourage them to do so as a generally good thing for society. But framing it the way you are right now is not just unhelpful, it actively makes unvaccinated people think you hate freedom and don't give a damn about anyone's personal opinions.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
FactolSarin 5y ago
1) I didn't mention children at all. I'm certainly not making a "think of the children" argument. That implies you think COVID is overblown and not a serious threat. But it is, and it's killed millions. 2) I don't give a damn about dumb opinions, and it's not my job to "educate" people that, let's be honest, don't really want to learn. The solution to stop deaths by DUIs isn't to try and convince people that they're wrong for driving drunk. The solution to stop deaths by lead poisoning isn't to try and educate consumers about the danger of lead in food. Framing that as "hating freedom" is disengenuous. It would be nice if people did the bare minimum to not endanger lives, without requiring the force of law. Sadly, that's not always the case.
- mdorazio 5y ago
  1) Replace "children" with "immunocompromised people". It is the exact same argument. Don't be pedantic. And yes, I do believe COVID is overblown in how it is presented. The risk factors are very clear now and nowhere near as bad as they were originally presented, or as bad as people still seem to think they are. 2) You just did it again - stating other people's opinions are "dumb" because they don't adhere to your personal mantra is exactly how you make other people completely disengage. Just like I'm going to do now.
  - FactolSarin 5y ago
    To be clear, there's nothing wrong with thinking of children (or the immunocompromised or handicapped or any other group). "Think of the children" is an argument where you use children to justify an absurd, overblown, or bad faith argument. You seem to think it means "I shouldn't have to think about other people's well-being because freedom." I think that's pretty callous.
    - mlang23 5y ago
      As a person with a disability, I request respectfully that you leave disability out of your flawed "everyone needs to comply with my opinion" nonsense. I dont want to see disability abused by people like you. Understood? Keep your patronising to yourself and your family.
  - shaklee3 5y ago
    Yes vaccinated people can pass it on, but not as easily (study released today). Yes getting vaccinated will end the pandemic sooner because A) it won't be transmitted as much, and B) hospitals won't be at capacity for milder cases. Just get vaccinated
- daddylongstroke 5y ago
  >It would be nice if people did the bare minimum to not endanger lives, without requiring the force of law. Sadly, that's not always the case. I completely agree, we need to somehow get rid of all cell phones, so that people can stop with all of the distracted driving for one. Then we can make sure we force folks to eat right, exercise, and get 7-9 hours of sleep a night. No sleep, no car.
XorNot 5y ago
So are you vaccinated? I feel like this is the entry question to this argument. And if not, why not?
curmudgeon22 5y ago
I think if the vaccines offered sterilizing immunity, you'd have a much stronger argument. As it is, vaccinated are able to transmit the disease, also putting immunocompromised at risk. That the vaccines appear to lack durable protection is a problem as well IMO. What are the compound impacts of the vaccines if booster shots are required on an annual basis?
- mlang23 5y ago
  > if booster shots are required on an annual basis Even worse, where I live the current story is a bi-annual renewal! I will fight this as long as I can. I dont want a dependency like that. Its a socially enforced drug abuse.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

FactolSarin 5y ago

1) I didn't mention children at all. I'm certainly not making a "think of the children" argument. That implies you think COVID is overblown and not a serious threat. But it is, and it's killed millions. 2) I don't give a damn about dumb opinions, and it's not my job to "educate" people that, let's be honest, don't really want to learn. The solution to stop deaths by DUIs isn't to try and convince people that they're wrong for driving drunk. The solution to stop deaths by lead poisoning isn't to try and educate consumers about the danger of lead in food. Framing that as "hating freedom" is disengenuous. It would be nice if people did the bare minimum to not endanger lives, without requiring the force of law. Sadly, that's not always the case.

mdorazio 5y ago
1) Replace "children" with "immunocompromised people". It is the exact same argument. Don't be pedantic. And yes, I do believe COVID is overblown in how it is presented. The risk factors are very clear now and nowhere near as bad as they were originally presented, or as bad as people still seem to think they are. 2) You just did it again - stating other people's opinions are "dumb" because they don't adhere to your personal mantra is exactly how you make other people completely disengage. Just like I'm going to do now.
- FactolSarin 5y ago
  To be clear, there's nothing wrong with thinking of children (or the immunocompromised or handicapped or any other group). "Think of the children" is an argument where you use children to justify an absurd, overblown, or bad faith argument. You seem to think it means "I shouldn't have to think about other people's well-being because freedom." I think that's pretty callous.
  - mlang23 5y ago
    As a person with a disability, I request respectfully that you leave disability out of your flawed "everyone needs to comply with my opinion" nonsense. I dont want to see disability abused by people like you. Understood? Keep your patronising to yourself and your family.
- shaklee3 5y ago
  Yes vaccinated people can pass it on, but not as easily (study released today). Yes getting vaccinated will end the pandemic sooner because A) it won't be transmitted as much, and B) hospitals won't be at capacity for milder cases. Just get vaccinated
daddylongstroke 5y ago
>It would be nice if people did the bare minimum to not endanger lives, without requiring the force of law. Sadly, that's not always the case. I completely agree, we need to somehow get rid of all cell phones, so that people can stop with all of the distracted driving for one. Then we can make sure we force folks to eat right, exercise, and get 7-9 hours of sleep a night. No sleep, no car.

XorNot 5y ago

So are you vaccinated? I feel like this is the entry question to this argument. And if not, why not?

curmudgeon22 5y ago

I think if the vaccines offered sterilizing immunity, you'd have a much stronger argument. As it is, vaccinated are able to transmit the disease, also putting immunocompromised at risk. That the vaccines appear to lack durable protection is a problem as well IMO. What are the compound impacts of the vaccines if booster shots are required on an annual basis?

mlang23 5y ago
> if booster shots are required on an annual basis Even worse, where I live the current story is a bi-annual renewal! I will fight this as long as I can. I dont want a dependency like that. Its a socially enforced drug abuse.