7 ms·

Elizabeth Holmes fails to keep customer complaints, test results out of trial

75 points by throwawaysea 5y ago

meepmorp 5y ago
> In a request to suppress the evidence, Holmes' lawyers argued that the government should be prevented from introducing Theranos test results at trial because a now-destroyed company database could have helped her rebut claims that the tests couldn't consistently produce accurate and reliable results. Gonna be honest, I nearly admire the sheer fucking gall of it. Sure, the CEO didn't ensure it was retained, but yolo.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  And of course... > At the time of the transfer of the database, an email from Holmes' attorneys included the password, but failed to mention that a private key would also be necessary for access, according to the judge's ruling. Ooopsie, forgot to mention you needed that! Oh gosh shucks darn, the database has already been destroyed. But it would have proved our innocence, trust us!
  - meepmorp 5y ago
    How judges don’t sprain their eyes from rolling them all the time, I do not know.
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  "Your honor, because I destroyed the evidence exonerating me, we mustn't consider the evidence incriminating me."
- busymom0 5y ago
  I wonder what these lawyers are thinking with making such mental gymnastics excuses?
  - meepmorp 5y ago
    You do whatever you have to - within the law - to provide a defense for your client, and you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. I also like to think they have a keen sense of the absurd.
MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
It truly is a sight for sore eyes how long it's taking to jail the female version of Bernie Madoff. I get that it was white collar but c'mon. Anybody else and they'd see 5-10 years in less than a year.
- gogopuppygogo 5y ago
  Bernie Madoff ran a ponzi. He paid returns with other investor monies. Holmes ran a pure fraud. She put lives at risk with her tests. Potentially, peopled died. She deserves an extremely long and punitive jail sentence.
  - skuhn 5y ago
    People also died from circumstances created by Madoff's fraud, including one of his sons.
    - mannykannot 5y ago
      I would not put it past Holmes to raise this point as a mitigating factor.
  - hnskrall 5y ago
    Doubt she will see a day in prison.
- vkou 5y ago
  It's a lot harder to jail someone for lying about how they are managing a company, and for running a medical lab poorly, than it is for running a ponzi scheme. Intent matters quite a bit in the former, but not very much in the latter.
  - ngold 5y ago
    When you rob Henry kissenger of millions of dollars and all his buddies who one being bill Clinton ex president, I'm very curious to see what happens next.
cmckn 5y ago
Is she still doing the fake voice? I truly cannot get enough of this story.
- hnskrall 5y ago
  What’s the fake voice? Give link/examples
- sexy_seedbox 5y ago
  Still waiting for the Jennifer Lawrence movie.
  - defterGoose 5y ago
    I was kinda thinking Mira Sorvino. Too bad shes not a little younger at this point.
  - ukoki 5y ago
    Jodie Comer I reckon
- challengly 5y ago
  How does one even pull that off? What would be her explanation to friends and family? Or did she slowly lower her tone over the course of months or years, so they didn't even notice?
  - slater 5y ago
    "i have to lower my voice to impress the VC and general Silicon Valley bros" would be my guess
  - ALittleLight 5y ago
    In high school I noticed my sister wore glasses when going out with her friends, but never at any other time. And, after a year or two in high school, hasn't ever worn glasses (that I know of) for many years after. It was clearly just an affectation for her friends and her family just made fun of her in private about it. You don't have to fool your family about stuff like this. Just your marks.
iaw 5y ago
I saw Holmes in SF around 18 months back. Photos don't do her justice, she's pretty charismatic in person but more strikingly she seemed very happy in the moment. If I had a similar sword of Damocles hanging over me I'd be in a horrible shape but somehow she seems just fine.
- greenonions 5y ago
  You, unlike Holmes, live in the world of reality.
  - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
    Potentially underrated commentary. Strongly held beliefs (if delusional) really can paint a much prettier façade over reality. And the worse that reality may become, the more strongly held those beliefs become. Until the, what was thought to be, unstoppable force of delusion meets the immovable object of reality.
    - amatecha 5y ago
      This reminded me of the guy who lived in Charles de Gaulle airport for 18 years[0] despite having numerous opportunities to leave. His own family visited and he pretended not to know them. He demanded to be known as "Sir Alfred" and sabotaged his own chances to leave by not accepting legal documents because they still had his original birth name and location, which he insisted were incorrect. Pretty interesting story, though pretty sad too. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Karimi_Nasseri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Karimi_Nasseri
- JimTheMan 5y ago
  I don't know anything about Holmes. But if she was a psychopath, then this would track perfectly. Completely unphased and unstressed about the world of chaos she's created around herself.
  - gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
cantrevealname 5y ago
> Prosecutors say Holmes purposefully frustrated the government's effort. An email from Holmes' attorneys included the password, but failed to mention the private key ... before destroying the original database. If this was done purposefully as the prosecutors claim, how is this not an additional crime of destroying evidence or failing to respond to a subpeona?
- nwiswell 5y ago
  It may well be a separate crime, but it's up to the prosecutors what charges they want to pursue at trial. Maybe they are confident enough to assert this is what happened but don't think they could meet the burden of proof before a jury.
  - sleepybrett 5y ago
    It seems like if you are on trail for crime x and you destroy evidence of crime x.. well it must have been the worst version of crime x and you should get the maximum sentence for crime x.
    - atatatat 5y ago
      That's how losing your toll card works! If only our entire society worked that way! Utopia!
- nickff 5y ago
  The most applicable law which I can imagine being relevant here would be the anti-shredding provision of Sarbanes-Oxley, and I'm not sure it applies here. It's also possible that she will be charged with something in the future, https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1519 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1519
  - beervirus 5y ago
    Could also fall under contempt if she intentionally did this under subpoena.
S_A_P 5y ago
I almost flip from disgust to respect when I see how gangster e Holmes is.
- ardit33 5y ago
  She is acting like a typical sociopath, and her behaviour throughout the whole scandal/affair demonstrates it. My advice, when you meet people like this in real life, stay way as much as you can. Nothing good comes out of them.
  - S_A_P 5y ago
    Totally agree, and my comment was mostly a flippant reaction to the audacity of her actions. Totally a sociopath and thinks rules/laws/social norms dont apply to her. Its mostly just amazing that obvious terrible behavior and lying is not called out.
- rasz 5y ago
  You are not alone https://www.elle.com/culture/a36806930/elizabeth-holmes-fans-tikt-tok/ https://www.elle.com/culture/a36806930/elizabeth-holmes-fans... she is a hero to a lot of women.
skee_0x4459 5y ago
never, ever forget that people who said she was a liar and a charlatan were shouted down and called misogynists. it was a case of the truth being crushed under the boots of dogma, no matter what these foamy-mouthed people say. and never forget that this obvious bullshit was genuinely endorsed by the most famous and powerful people in the united states.
- manicdee 5y ago
  That this one woman turned out to be a fraud doesn’t absolve the rabid misogynists calling all women frauds.
  - skee_0x4459 5y ago
    im not going to engage beyond one comment because petty arguments arent tolerated here. ive never even heard of a person who thought all women are frauds. but that would be dogma. there are no large political camps in the US that do not harbor large and meaningful amounts of dogmatic thought.
  - rasz 5y ago
    https://youtu.be/t1R9IQF0Y9s?t=28m5s https://youtu.be/t1R9IQF0Y9s?t=28m5s
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jamesliudotcc 5y ago
I wonder what the lawyers are up to. Is this a delaying tactic? It buys her a few months of freedom, I suppose. Who is paying for this? I imagine that any money going to her extremely expensive lawyers will not go to her ... alleged ... victims. Also, who is this law firm that is defending her? I get that it is supposed to be "honorable" to defend "allegedly deplorable" humans. But I was a lawyer once. She is entitled to a vigorous defense, but I sure as heck would not have done it. I like being able to go home and sleep at night. Then again, her lawyers probably don't get to sleep. Their loss.

75 points by throwawaysea 5y ago

> In a request to suppress the evidence, Holmes' lawyers argued that the government should be prevented from introducing Theranos test results at trial because a now-destroyed company database could have helped her rebut claims that the tests couldn't consistently produce accurate and reliable results. Gonna be honest, I nearly admire the sheer fucking gall of it. Sure, the CEO didn't ensure it was retained, but yolo.

stickfigure 5y ago
And of course... > At the time of the transfer of the database, an email from Holmes' attorneys included the password, but failed to mention that a private key would also be necessary for access, according to the judge's ruling. Ooopsie, forgot to mention you needed that! Oh gosh shucks darn, the database has already been destroyed. But it would have proved our innocence, trust us!
- meepmorp 5y ago
  How judges don’t sprain their eyes from rolling them all the time, I do not know.
ALittleLight 5y ago
"Your honor, because I destroyed the evidence exonerating me, we mustn't consider the evidence incriminating me."
busymom0 5y ago
I wonder what these lawyers are thinking with making such mental gymnastics excuses?
- meepmorp 5y ago
  You do whatever you have to - within the law - to provide a defense for your client, and you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. I also like to think they have a keen sense of the absurd.

MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago

It truly is a sight for sore eyes how long it's taking to jail the female version of Bernie Madoff. I get that it was white collar but c'mon. Anybody else and they'd see 5-10 years in less than a year.

gogopuppygogo 5y ago
Bernie Madoff ran a ponzi. He paid returns with other investor monies. Holmes ran a pure fraud. She put lives at risk with her tests. Potentially, peopled died. She deserves an extremely long and punitive jail sentence.
- skuhn 5y ago
  People also died from circumstances created by Madoff's fraud, including one of his sons.
  - mannykannot 5y ago
    I would not put it past Holmes to raise this point as a mitigating factor.
- hnskrall 5y ago
  Doubt she will see a day in prison.
vkou 5y ago
It's a lot harder to jail someone for lying about how they are managing a company, and for running a medical lab poorly, than it is for running a ponzi scheme. Intent matters quite a bit in the former, but not very much in the latter.
- ngold 5y ago
  When you rob Henry kissenger of millions of dollars and all his buddies who one being bill Clinton ex president, I'm very curious to see what happens next.

cmckn 5y ago

Is she still doing the fake voice? I truly cannot get enough of this story.

hnskrall 5y ago
What’s the fake voice? Give link/examples
sexy_seedbox 5y ago
Still waiting for the Jennifer Lawrence movie.
- defterGoose 5y ago
  I was kinda thinking Mira Sorvino. Too bad shes not a little younger at this point.
- ukoki 5y ago
  Jodie Comer I reckon
challengly 5y ago
How does one even pull that off? What would be her explanation to friends and family? Or did she slowly lower her tone over the course of months or years, so they didn't even notice?
- slater 5y ago
  "i have to lower my voice to impress the VC and general Silicon Valley bros" would be my guess
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  In high school I noticed my sister wore glasses when going out with her friends, but never at any other time. And, after a year or two in high school, hasn't ever worn glasses (that I know of) for many years after. It was clearly just an affectation for her friends and her family just made fun of her in private about it. You don't have to fool your family about stuff like this. Just your marks.

iaw 5y ago

I saw Holmes in SF around 18 months back. Photos don't do her justice, she's pretty charismatic in person but more strikingly she seemed very happy in the moment. If I had a similar sword of Damocles hanging over me I'd be in a horrible shape but somehow she seems just fine.

greenonions 5y ago
You, unlike Holmes, live in the world of reality.
- BLKNSLVR 5y ago
  Potentially underrated commentary. Strongly held beliefs (if delusional) really can paint a much prettier façade over reality. And the worse that reality may become, the more strongly held those beliefs become. Until the, what was thought to be, unstoppable force of delusion meets the immovable object of reality.
  - amatecha 5y ago
    This reminded me of the guy who lived in Charles de Gaulle airport for 18 years[0] despite having numerous opportunities to leave. His own family visited and he pretended not to know them. He demanded to be known as "Sir Alfred" and sabotaged his own chances to leave by not accepting legal documents because they still had his original birth name and location, which he insisted were incorrect. Pretty interesting story, though pretty sad too. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Karimi_Nasseri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Karimi_Nasseri
JimTheMan 5y ago
I don't know anything about Holmes. But if she was a psychopath, then this would track perfectly. Completely unphased and unstressed about the world of chaos she's created around herself.
- gunfighthacksaw 5y ago

cantrevealname 5y ago

> Prosecutors say Holmes purposefully frustrated the government's effort. An email from Holmes' attorneys included the password, but failed to mention the private key ... before destroying the original database. If this was done purposefully as the prosecutors claim, how is this not an additional crime of destroying evidence or failing to respond to a subpeona?

nwiswell 5y ago
It may well be a separate crime, but it's up to the prosecutors what charges they want to pursue at trial. Maybe they are confident enough to assert this is what happened but don't think they could meet the burden of proof before a jury.
- sleepybrett 5y ago
  It seems like if you are on trail for crime x and you destroy evidence of crime x.. well it must have been the worst version of crime x and you should get the maximum sentence for crime x.
  - atatatat 5y ago
    That's how losing your toll card works! If only our entire society worked that way! Utopia!
nickff 5y ago
The most applicable law which I can imagine being relevant here would be the anti-shredding provision of Sarbanes-Oxley, and I'm not sure it applies here. It's also possible that she will be charged with something in the future, https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1519 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1519
- beervirus 5y ago
  Could also fall under contempt if she intentionally did this under subpoena.

S_A_P 5y ago

I almost flip from disgust to respect when I see how gangster e Holmes is.

ardit33 5y ago
She is acting like a typical sociopath, and her behaviour throughout the whole scandal/affair demonstrates it. My advice, when you meet people like this in real life, stay way as much as you can. Nothing good comes out of them.
- S_A_P 5y ago
  Totally agree, and my comment was mostly a flippant reaction to the audacity of her actions. Totally a sociopath and thinks rules/laws/social norms dont apply to her. Its mostly just amazing that obvious terrible behavior and lying is not called out.
rasz 5y ago
You are not alone https://www.elle.com/culture/a36806930/elizabeth-holmes-fans-tikt-tok/ https://www.elle.com/culture/a36806930/elizabeth-holmes-fans... she is a hero to a lot of women.

skee_0x4459 5y ago

never, ever forget that people who said she was a liar and a charlatan were shouted down and called misogynists. it was a case of the truth being crushed under the boots of dogma, no matter what these foamy-mouthed people say. and never forget that this obvious bullshit was genuinely endorsed by the most famous and powerful people in the united states.

manicdee 5y ago
That this one woman turned out to be a fraud doesn’t absolve the rabid misogynists calling all women frauds.
- skee_0x4459 5y ago
  im not going to engage beyond one comment because petty arguments arent tolerated here. ive never even heard of a person who thought all women are frauds. but that would be dogma. there are no large political camps in the US that do not harbor large and meaningful amounts of dogmatic thought.
- rasz 5y ago
  https://youtu.be/t1R9IQF0Y9s?t=28m5s https://youtu.be/t1R9IQF0Y9s?t=28m5s

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jamesliudotcc 5y ago

I wonder what the lawyers are up to. Is this a delaying tactic? It buys her a few months of freedom, I suppose. Who is paying for this? I imagine that any money going to her extremely expensive lawyers will not go to her ... alleged ... victims. Also, who is this law firm that is defending her? I get that it is supposed to be "honorable" to defend "allegedly deplorable" humans. But I was a lawyer once. She is entitled to a vigorous defense, but I sure as heck would not have done it. I like being able to go home and sleep at night. Then again, her lawyers probably don't get to sleep. Their loss.