6 ms·

IMO the city should provide enough homeless shelters for everyone and then just make homelessness illegal. So if you are found sleeping in a tent you get referr

IMO the city should provide enough homeless shelters for everyone and then just make homelessness illegal. So if you are found sleeping in a tent you get referred to the nearest shelter and if you refuse you get arrested. We can not allow homelessness to exist because it makes public spaces unsafe like you mention. Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions.

danans 5y ago
> Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions. They do, and this is sometimes why homeless people avoid the shelters. You cannot hold someone in a shelter against their will.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  Also, more than a few of those chronic drug addictions are self-medicating for other conditions that are only tangential to housing itself and aren't going to get any better if you take the drugs away without offering other support.
- foxpurple 5y ago
  That’s why my suggestion is to offer them the choice to willingly use a shelter or go to jail. Homelessness and drug abuse can not be allowed to exist to keep public spaces safe.
  - danans 5y ago
    > That’s why my suggestion is to offer them the choice to willingly use a shelter or go to jail You can't jail someone for not sheltering themselves. That would most probably violate their civil rights and would not survive a test in the courts.
    - blindmute 5y ago
      You can jail someone for camping in a park, though. If they want to go sleep and shamble in the woods, go for it. Not on the sidewalks.
bperson 5y ago
> Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions Many homeless choose the street over the shelter for this reason
slimsag 5y ago
Homelessness is already illegal in most places. They are already often referred to the nearest shelter. They are already frequently arrested. Homeless shelter's don't help, they're ridiculously dangerous to be in. You need to do more research on the topic. VICE has some decent documentaries on the issue.
- awsthro00945 5y ago
  >Homeless shelter's don't help, they're ridiculously dangerous to be in. Then solve this problem. The problem I constantly see with homelessness in America is that municipalities constantly half ass every attempt to fix it, and then throw up their hands and say "well that didn't work, I guess there's nothing we can do!" Building homeless shelters without making them safe places to be is the perfect example of half-assing. I mean ffs, it's in the name: shelter. A homeless shelter not being safe doesn't mean that homeless shelters don't work, it just means your execution was shit.
  - Overton-Window 5y ago
    Do yourself a favour and volunteer at your nearest shelter for an afternoon.
    - awsthro00945 5y ago
      Do yourself a favor and don't make assumptions about me. I've volunteered at homeless shelters before. At a previous company, I was in charge of working directly with a homeless shelter to organize volunteer events for my colleagues. I have firsthand experience at homeless shelters that have successfully become shelters where people really want to be there rather than on the street because of the services and environment they provide.
      - cloverich 5y ago
        it would be constructive to provide some examples of concrete things municipalities can do, and that we can learn about so we can hold them accountable.
xnyan 5y ago
Even in the best case, homeless shelters have serious downsides (to put it mildly) that you may not have considered. -Have a pet? Not coming with you. A stint at the pound, likely followed by euthanization due to overcrowding. -How about a family? If you can even get into a shelter, odds are it's going to be male or women and children. -Shelters are often unsafe and filled with people who have untreated problems. Violence is a real risk. -Very little space for personal possessions, high incidence of theft. >Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions. I would strongly encourage you to volunteer at a homeless shelter. Not only do they need the help, you'll learn that while drugs are restricted at the shelter, it's a fantastic place to meet people who use drugs and find new sources of drugs.
- zepto 5y ago
  > you'll learn that while drugs are restricted at the shelter, it's a fantastic place to meet people who use drugs and find new sources of drugs Is this not also a problem at homeless encampments?
  - pseudalopex 5y ago
    Making it illegal to be homeless means outside encampments too.
    - zepto 5y ago
      No it doesn’t. People already sell drugs outside of homeless encampments. Making it illegal to be homeless changes nothing.
      - pseudalopex 5y ago
        Making it illegal to be homeless means making it illegal to be homeless. Not just in encampments. They said homeless shelters have a lot of drug activity. You implied encampments do too. What was your point if it wasn't about encampments?
golemiprague 5y ago
Those people should not get arrested, they should be in a mental hospital. It used to be like that in the old days but then some legalisation stopped the practice of putting mental people into mental asylums so now they roam the streets. Maybe it was because those asylums were horrible but it doesn't have to be like that, we can just improve those places. There are enough shelters for homeless people but you can't force them, we need to force them into something, but not into a prison.
drewrv 5y ago
I agree in principle that if there's a safe bed available, setting up a tent in a park should be illegal. But reality is complicated and there are lots of edge cases. Theft and assaults happen at shelters, so maybe there's a bed available but do people feel safe? If you were assaulted at a shelter would you want to return the next night? Forcing people to chose between two unsafe options (shelter or jail) feels cruel. Addiction also complicates things. Should a shelter allow substance abuse? If so it can be a really bad place for recovering addicts. If shelters do not allow substance abuse, then addicts have no place to legally exist. If locking them up actually helped their addiction that might be ok, but it does not. There are other problems with shelters. Many of them have weird hours and capacity limits. Many are gender segregated. What people need is a space where they feel safe, they can store their belongings, they can come and go as needed to get to appointments and services, they can live with a partner or on their own. These are the things that will help people get back on their feet, overcome addiction, etc, and "shelters" are totally inadequate.

danans 5y ago

> Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions. They do, and this is sometimes why homeless people avoid the shelters. You cannot hold someone in a shelter against their will.

crooked-v 5y ago
Also, more than a few of those chronic drug addictions are self-medicating for other conditions that are only tangential to housing itself and aren't going to get any better if you take the drugs away without offering other support.
foxpurple 5y ago
That’s why my suggestion is to offer them the choice to willingly use a shelter or go to jail. Homelessness and drug abuse can not be allowed to exist to keep public spaces safe.
- danans 5y ago
  > That’s why my suggestion is to offer them the choice to willingly use a shelter or go to jail You can't jail someone for not sheltering themselves. That would most probably violate their civil rights and would not survive a test in the courts.
  - blindmute 5y ago
    You can jail someone for camping in a park, though. If they want to go sleep and shamble in the woods, go for it. Not on the sidewalks.

bperson 5y ago

> Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions Many homeless choose the street over the shelter for this reason

slimsag 5y ago

Homelessness is already illegal in most places. They are already often referred to the nearest shelter. They are already frequently arrested. Homeless shelter's don't help, they're ridiculously dangerous to be in. You need to do more research on the topic. VICE has some decent documentaries on the issue.

awsthro00945 5y ago
>Homeless shelter's don't help, they're ridiculously dangerous to be in. Then solve this problem. The problem I constantly see with homelessness in America is that municipalities constantly half ass every attempt to fix it, and then throw up their hands and say "well that didn't work, I guess there's nothing we can do!" Building homeless shelters without making them safe places to be is the perfect example of half-assing. I mean ffs, it's in the name: shelter. A homeless shelter not being safe doesn't mean that homeless shelters don't work, it just means your execution was shit.
- Overton-Window 5y ago
  Do yourself a favour and volunteer at your nearest shelter for an afternoon.
  - awsthro00945 5y ago
    Do yourself a favor and don't make assumptions about me. I've volunteered at homeless shelters before. At a previous company, I was in charge of working directly with a homeless shelter to organize volunteer events for my colleagues. I have firsthand experience at homeless shelters that have successfully become shelters where people really want to be there rather than on the street because of the services and environment they provide.
    - cloverich 5y ago
      it would be constructive to provide some examples of concrete things municipalities can do, and that we can learn about so we can hold them accountable.

xnyan 5y ago

Even in the best case, homeless shelters have serious downsides (to put it mildly) that you may not have considered. -Have a pet? Not coming with you. A stint at the pound, likely followed by euthanization due to overcrowding. -How about a family? If you can even get into a shelter, odds are it's going to be male or women and children. -Shelters are often unsafe and filled with people who have untreated problems. Violence is a real risk. -Very little space for personal possessions, high incidence of theft. >Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions. I would strongly encourage you to volunteer at a homeless shelter. Not only do they need the help, you'll learn that while drugs are restricted at the shelter, it's a fantastic place to meet people who use drugs and find new sources of drugs.

zepto 5y ago
> you'll learn that while drugs are restricted at the shelter, it's a fantastic place to meet people who use drugs and find new sources of drugs Is this not also a problem at homeless encampments?
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  Making it illegal to be homeless means outside encampments too.
  - zepto 5y ago
    No it doesn’t. People already sell drugs outside of homeless encampments. Making it illegal to be homeless changes nothing.
    - pseudalopex 5y ago
      Making it illegal to be homeless means making it illegal to be homeless. Not just in encampments. They said homeless shelters have a lot of drug activity. You implied encampments do too. What was your point if it wasn't about encampments?

golemiprague 5y ago

Those people should not get arrested, they should be in a mental hospital. It used to be like that in the old days but then some legalisation stopped the practice of putting mental people into mental asylums so now they roam the streets. Maybe it was because those asylums were horrible but it doesn't have to be like that, we can just improve those places. There are enough shelters for homeless people but you can't force them, we need to force them into something, but not into a prison.

drewrv 5y ago

I agree in principle that if there's a safe bed available, setting up a tent in a park should be illegal. But reality is complicated and there are lots of edge cases. Theft and assaults happen at shelters, so maybe there's a bed available but do people feel safe? If you were assaulted at a shelter would you want to return the next night? Forcing people to chose between two unsafe options (shelter or jail) feels cruel. Addiction also complicates things. Should a shelter allow substance abuse? If so it can be a really bad place for recovering addicts. If shelters do not allow substance abuse, then addicts have no place to legally exist. If locking them up actually helped their addiction that might be ok, but it does not. There are other problems with shelters. Many of them have weird hours and capacity limits. Many are gender segregated. What people need is a space where they feel safe, they can store their belongings, they can come and go as needed to get to appointments and services, they can live with a partner or on their own. These are the things that will help people get back on their feet, overcome addiction, etc, and "shelters" are totally inadequate.