4 ms·

> mRNA is a new, unknown technology This is untrue, researchers have been testing various mRNA therapies on people for 30 years, with it being first done in vi

by ch4s3 5y ago

> mRNA is a new, unknown technology This is untrue, researchers have been testing various mRNA therapies on people for 30 years, with it being first done in vitro in 1990 then in vivo in 1992 [1]. Lipid nano particles were first used around the same time. > the vaccine was rushed faster to public access than any other vaccine before This is only true if you ignore the development of the mRNA vaccine platform for flu, rabies, and zika that predated the pandemic by years. The novel development here was swapping in new protein encoding. If you look at this as a continuation of that process, then it's only a little faster than normal, and a lot of that was due to the FDA switching sequential steps in the process to be parallel. > We have absolutely no idea if there are any long term side effects of these vaccines. This isn't a meaningful claim for 2 key reasons. There has never been a vaccine that had serious side effects that did show up shortly after vaccination[2]. The history of mRNA treatments began as an experiment in gene therapy, but has largely ben abandoned because the effects never lasted long enough. As of 2020 this is an ongoing area of research[3]. No one has figure out how to stabilize mRNA so that it has long lasting effects. > Both candidates Biden and Harris They're both craven, ignorant politicians, who cares what they said when the other guy was in power. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243 https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243 [2] https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.... [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7076378/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7076378/ [edit] All that said, I am no pro mandate but seriously you should all voluntarily go get vaccinated IMHO.

reader_mode 5y ago
>This isn't a meaningful claim for 2 key reasons. There has never been a vaccine that had serious side effects that did show up shortly after vaccination[2]. The history of mRNA treatments began as an experiment in gene therapy, but has largely ben abandoned because the effects never lasted long enough. As of 2020 this is an ongoing area of research[3]. No one has figure out how to stabilize mRNA so that it has long lasting effects. This isn't really what I'm worried about. Right now people are talking long COVID, subtle long term brain damage and it seems like mechanisms are still unknown. So who's to say that immune system reaction triggered by vaccination isn't causing same kind of hard to detect damage. I'd be much more comfortable with the vaccine if the long COVID studies included groups : - no vaccination/hospitalised - no vaccination/asymptomatic - vaccination/not infected - vaccination/infected I'm not a risk group and have no problems with social distancing so I'm waiting for stuff like this to come out.
- titzer 5y ago
  > I'm not a risk group and have no problems with social distancing so I'm waiting for stuff like this to come out. Respectfully, I think what you're really waiting for is this thing to blow over so you don't have to take any personal risk. That's likely to be a fail, as you're just a waiting Petri dish for the live virus to infect. All kinds of things have risk and the craven merchants of doubt are busy spreading FUD about the vaccine. It's really our only way out of this shit show, because waiting around is just prolonging it. Or would you like to have a long drawn out conversation about the long term health effects of: * preservatives * artificial sweeteners * high fructose corn syrup * pesticides * HPV infection * influenza/rhinovirus infection * sunburns * a night of heavy drinking Because we can absolutely have a long, drawn out, twisting conversation about all those things.
  - reader_mode 5y ago
    On one hand I'm being presented with avoiding long COVID sideffects as a reason to get vaccinated - on the other I get no proof that vaccination doesn't do similar harm and that it's actually protective of those effects. I don't really mind social distancing measures untill people in the risk groups get vaccinated - all of my high risk contacts have been. So I don't get what we need to get out of, my government is already saying they will eliminate COVID measures after summer, UK style. I'll get vaccinated at some point if I have to do it for travel or what not - right now I'm not convinced - the social arguments don't make much sense to me (variants will come up anyway, you can get infected and spread the virus even if vaccinated you're just reducing risk)
    - ch4s3 5y ago
      If you're so concerned, don't get the vaccine. But I'm begging you to please stop spreading baseless FUD about long term side effects. There is 0 evidence or any theory at all that could account for that.
    - titzer 5y ago
      > On one hand I'm being presented with avoiding long COVID sideffects as a reason to get vaccinated - on the other I get no proof that vaccination doesn't do similar harm and that it's actually protective of those effects. Well if you're feeling conflicted between these things, you're just being willfully ignorant at this point. The vaccine protects against severe COVID, hands down. Long COVID is highly correlated with severe COVID. The data is absolutely rock solid on both of those. And for these nebulous "unknown long term effects" of the anti-vaxers keep scare-mongering with, the data on that is also pretty damn good. There is no data supporting widespread negative effects from the vaccine after a year. mRNA vaccines have been in use for decades to combat influenza, and there is similarly absolutely no data to support long-term effects from their use. Even a cursory education about how mRNA vaccines actually work, how they create an immune response and don't alter your DNA should be enough to convince most Science-minded, reasonable people. The immune response induced is on the order of any other; there's nothing special about the COVID vaccine immune response! And it doesn't give you an actual viral infection. A vaccine is literally all the benefit with none of the downside. Unlike dummies who think that somehow actually getting COVID is better for immunity. No data supports that conclusion, either. The vaccine is effective and safe. People who tell you otherwise are just manufacturing doubt and spreading FUD. They are fucking this up for the rest of us. We could have reached herd immunity with the vaccine by now, and variants would no longer be of concern. > right now I'm not convinced Well, I'm not inclined to believe that you can be convinced, because you didn't reason yourself into the position you're in now. No one will be reasoning you out of it. We're mostly just combating your further spreading of FUD like your apparent willingness to be a link in the chain in further spreading of the goddamn virus. It's really incredible the selfishness here.

by ch4s3 5y ago

reader_mode 5y ago

>This isn't a meaningful claim for 2 key reasons. There has never been a vaccine that had serious side effects that did show up shortly after vaccination[2]. The history of mRNA treatments began as an experiment in gene therapy, but has largely ben abandoned because the effects never lasted long enough. As of 2020 this is an ongoing area of research[3]. No one has figure out how to stabilize mRNA so that it has long lasting effects. This isn't really what I'm worried about. Right now people are talking long COVID, subtle long term brain damage and it seems like mechanisms are still unknown. So who's to say that immune system reaction triggered by vaccination isn't causing same kind of hard to detect damage. I'd be much more comfortable with the vaccine if the long COVID studies included groups : - no vaccination/hospitalised - no vaccination/asymptomatic - vaccination/not infected - vaccination/infected I'm not a risk group and have no problems with social distancing so I'm waiting for stuff like this to come out.

titzer 5y ago
> I'm not a risk group and have no problems with social distancing so I'm waiting for stuff like this to come out. Respectfully, I think what you're really waiting for is this thing to blow over so you don't have to take any personal risk. That's likely to be a fail, as you're just a waiting Petri dish for the live virus to infect. All kinds of things have risk and the craven merchants of doubt are busy spreading FUD about the vaccine. It's really our only way out of this shit show, because waiting around is just prolonging it. Or would you like to have a long drawn out conversation about the long term health effects of: * preservatives * artificial sweeteners * high fructose corn syrup * pesticides * HPV infection * influenza/rhinovirus infection * sunburns * a night of heavy drinking Because we can absolutely have a long, drawn out, twisting conversation about all those things.
- reader_mode 5y ago
  On one hand I'm being presented with avoiding long COVID sideffects as a reason to get vaccinated - on the other I get no proof that vaccination doesn't do similar harm and that it's actually protective of those effects. I don't really mind social distancing measures untill people in the risk groups get vaccinated - all of my high risk contacts have been. So I don't get what we need to get out of, my government is already saying they will eliminate COVID measures after summer, UK style. I'll get vaccinated at some point if I have to do it for travel or what not - right now I'm not convinced - the social arguments don't make much sense to me (variants will come up anyway, you can get infected and spread the virus even if vaccinated you're just reducing risk)
  - ch4s3 5y ago
    If you're so concerned, don't get the vaccine. But I'm begging you to please stop spreading baseless FUD about long term side effects. There is 0 evidence or any theory at all that could account for that.
  - titzer 5y ago
    > On one hand I'm being presented with avoiding long COVID sideffects as a reason to get vaccinated - on the other I get no proof that vaccination doesn't do similar harm and that it's actually protective of those effects. Well if you're feeling conflicted between these things, you're just being willfully ignorant at this point. The vaccine protects against severe COVID, hands down. Long COVID is highly correlated with severe COVID. The data is absolutely rock solid on both of those. And for these nebulous "unknown long term effects" of the anti-vaxers keep scare-mongering with, the data on that is also pretty damn good. There is no data supporting widespread negative effects from the vaccine after a year. mRNA vaccines have been in use for decades to combat influenza, and there is similarly absolutely no data to support long-term effects from their use. Even a cursory education about how mRNA vaccines actually work, how they create an immune response and don't alter your DNA should be enough to convince most Science-minded, reasonable people. The immune response induced is on the order of any other; there's nothing special about the COVID vaccine immune response! And it doesn't give you an actual viral infection. A vaccine is literally all the benefit with none of the downside. Unlike dummies who think that somehow actually getting COVID is better for immunity. No data supports that conclusion, either. The vaccine is effective and safe. People who tell you otherwise are just manufacturing doubt and spreading FUD. They are fucking this up for the rest of us. We could have reached herd immunity with the vaccine by now, and variants would no longer be of concern. > right now I'm not convinced Well, I'm not inclined to believe that you can be convinced, because you didn't reason yourself into the position you're in now. No one will be reasoning you out of it. We're mostly just combating your further spreading of FUD like your apparent willingness to be a link in the chain in further spreading of the goddamn virus. It's really incredible the selfishness here.