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In the US, that job may not offer the person any net quality-of-life improvements. Flipping that burger for 30 hours a week does not give them enough money to f

• gruez 5y ago
  >Flipping that burger for 30 hours a week does not give them enough money to find housing. Now they're still broke but they're also tired, smelly, and angry. But now they still have $420 (based on CA's minimum wage of $14) more in their pocket?
  • daenz 5y ago
    Panhandling can earn more than minimum wage, and you have no boss or responsibilities.
    • gruez 5y ago
      see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28066652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28066652
  • sudosysgen 5y ago
    Yeah, but they're still homeless, and unless you can find a place eventually you'll get fired. It may also be that you can get more than 400$/week panhandling. That's only 57$/day.
    • gruez 5y ago
      >It may also be that you can get more than 400$/week panhandling. That's only 57$/day. Are we comparing the upper end of what you can earn via pan-handling with the lower end of what you can earn via a minimum wage job here? That might be responsible for the apparent disparity. Apparently LA has around 65k homeless people. I'm skeptical that even half of that (32.5k) can all earn an average income of $400/week panhandling.
  • SrslyJosh 5y ago
    Good luck getting and keeping a job when you have nowhere to shower and may be forced to relocate at any time. Oh, and the cops may come and smash or steal all of your belongings.
    • dcolkitt 5y ago
      Gym memberships can be had for $20/month or less, and provide a full bathroom facility for showering and grooming. I'm not trying to be pedantic. I'm just pointing this out for anybody reading this who may find themself in a situation like this in the future.
      • skeeter2020 5y ago
        good luck getting a gym membership without an address, cell phone, credit card or sizeable deposit - forget about the fact that you look & smell terrible.
        • leesalminen 5y ago
          I did it in Boulder , CO for a few months. I didn’t have an address but I did have a cell phone and debit (not credit) card. I did look and smell like a campfire. I’ve never heard of a deposit for a gym- those must be some fancy gymnasiums.
          • endisneigh 5y ago
            which gym was it? the cheapness gym I know of (Planet Fitness - $10/month) requires a bank account.
            • leesalminen 5y ago
              I just checked because it’s been a few years. The building is now occupied by 24 Hour Fitness, but I don’t think that was the name of it when I used it. If gyms are cracking down on this use case then that is a shame. I wonder if you could retro-fit a 53’ tractor trailer into shower(s) + laundry stall(s) on wheels and bring it close to the “customer”? I wonder how that could work.
  • grimgrin 5y ago
    talk to a homeless person. see the depression. imagine? it is v sad
  • edoceo 5y ago
    "net quality-of-life improvements" from the parent. You are counting Gross. IE: its not worth it.
    • gruez 5y ago
      There's a lot of quality-of-life improvements you can buy with $420. food, access to a gym, a better tent, PO box/locker to store your stuff, etc. Multiply that by 4 weeks, and you get $1680, which seems almost enough to rent a unit with roommates.
  • asciimov 5y ago
    Closer to $280 once tax and social security is taken out.
    • dcolkitt 5y ago
      At $420/week, federal FICA taxes are about $45. Federal income tax would be zero at this level. (Actually probably negative once you add back in the EITC)
      • asciimov 5y ago
        That all depends on how you fill out that w2. While you might get that money back, more if you qualify for the EITC, most people are still going to have their taxes removed from their paycheck.
        • sokoloff 5y ago
          > depends on how you fill out that w2. W-4 is the payroll withholding form (from employee to employer). W-2 is provided by an employer to the employee (and the IRS) at the end of the year.
  • dralley 5y ago
    If you're sleeping in the street or in a homeless shelter, the only thing that amount of money is going to do for you (in California at least) is make you a target for thieves.
    • gruez 5y ago
      Good thing that many employers (typically the ones that employ minimum wage workers) allow you to take your paycheck on a prepaid debit card.
      • woodruffw 5y ago
        Which, of course, is predicated on having the appropriate documentation for opening and maintaining a bank account. In most states (although not NY), that means a federally valid ID. I’ve also reviewed some of these accounts and payroll apps, and many are downright predatory: extraordinary fees for a no-frills debit account, tie-ins to payday loan companies, and connections to “micro investing” (read: gambling) are rampant.
      • Arrath 5y ago
        Have the near usurious transaction fees typically associated with those cards been regulated away, or are they still yet another way for financial conglomerates to nickel and dime more profits from the most vulnerable, while masquerading as a better option? I last had my pay deposited onto a prepaid card in 2009, so the laws may indeed have changed. Back then those fees were overly restrictive and quickly ate into my meagre take home (unless, ironically, I withdrew as much as I could with my single allotted fee-less cash withdrawal per pay period)
        • gruez 5y ago
          > Have the near usurious transaction fees typically associated with those cards been regulated away, or are they still yet another way for financial conglomerates to nickel and dime more profits from the most vulnerable, while masquerading as a better option? I'm having trouble finding the source, but my recollection from a planet money podcast is that they're free to withdraw if you use their network of ATMs, but otherwise charge you a few dollars per transaction. As for whether it's better, maybe? It's certainly worse than a no-fee banking account at a local credit union (but with limited ATM access) or a big bank (but with a fee and/or minimum deposit requirements), but it's better than holding a wad of cash on your body.
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• temp8964 5y ago
  What kind of life you can get by just flipping burger for 30 hours a week in Europe? Honest question.
  • fxtentacle 5y ago
    The typical student lifestyle, I'd say. 20m^2 room 5-10km from the city center with combined toilet+shower and internet flatrate.
  • shadowoflight 5y ago
    I don't know about flipping burgers or all of Europe, but entry-level pay at Aldi in Switzerland is around $65k USD.
  • scotty79 5y ago
    In Poland you could rent a studio apartment for 1/3 of McDonalds fulltime initial salary. The other 1/3 should be sufficient for food if you cook yourself.
• cduzz 5y ago
  How do you cash a paycheck if you are without an address or a bank account? How do you establish that you are a citizen and are legally able to take a job if you are unable to safely store your documents? How do you get health care, inclusive of mental health care, if you are unable to pay for it? If you are without a secure residence, how do you know when to wake up, how do you clean up, put on fresh clothing, and get to work? If you rely on public transit, how do you reliably get to work? How do you establish residence if you have no reasonable credit or references? How do you save your deposit, first month's rent, and last month's rent, if you are unable to even get a bank account? For any complex problem there is an obvious, simple, and totally incorrect answer. "The homeless should just get a job and get a place to live"
  • tdfx 5y ago
    You're right, their situation does prevent them from jumping into a white collar, professional life with a good credit score and personal references. But I don't think that's what anyone is suggesting. Most of the problems you stated are not problems for the type of labor that is offered to homeless people. Jobs for construction, landscaping, moving etc. with a truck that picks you up and drops you off. Usually done by illegal immigrants so cash pay is not a problem. From the business owners I know who have tried to hire homeless people to do daily labor, none of them are interested.
    • cduzz 5y ago
      I would ask you to think through the logistics of managing any of your proposed solutions when you don't have a safe place to sleep or store your stuff. Instructions like 1) leave your stuff some place out of your control 2) somehow get to a parking lot where people pick up day workers 3) hang out with day laborers hoping to get a job 4) get in a random truck on the promise that someone will pay you 5) get driven some place to do a job 6) do the job 7) assume they'll take you back where they got you 8) assume they'll pay you what they promised in cash 9) get back to my stuff, hope it is still there 10) hope that I can store my cash some place safe 11) of course, don't forget you're doing this with basically no sleep, unhealthy food, no good place to poop, no reliable place to wash, etc. For months at a time. And of course do that for a couple months or years without having anything terrible happen to you until you save up enough to rent a place? That doesn't seem like a realistic plan.
• spfzero 5y ago
  They shouldn't be that tired working only 30 hours per week. Lots of people work 50-60 hours a week. I would even say, if you could only get 30 hours that frees you up for a second job, assuming the commute is reasonable (which I'm aware it might not be, except it seems these jobs are everywhere.) You do need to be a person who views working productively to better themselves, as net positive quality of life. And to be fair, they need a place to shower and wash clothes. Those services should be provided, and certainly in LA and SF plenty of money has been set aside to provide that.