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> High vaccination rates will only exert selection pressure on the virus causing new mutation strains to become dominant. > How is this not understood? The sa

> High vaccination rates will only exert selection pressure on the virus causing new mutation strains to become dominant. > How is this not understood? The same way vaccines create selection pressure, so does natural immunity. Letting people get infected instead of vaccinating them actually makes the dice roll much more, as in orders of magnitude more. Just look how most of the variants of concern, and mainly delta, appeared before any significant vaccine rollout, and further, delta shows high rates of reinfection vs. infection of vaccinated people. Only vaccinating those at-risk will keep this going and going for God knows how long, and regularly overcrowding hospitals with very corageous freedom fighters. Just get your shot instead of playing armchair epidemiologist.

_red 5y ago
>Just get your shot instead of playing armchair epidemiologist. I've already had covid in 2020 and recently had another antibody test which still showed a strong response...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Uberphallus 5y ago
  Antibodies are useless if they don't have the ability to bind to mutated proteins. > Some monoclonal antibodies, including bamlanivimab, lost their ability to bind to the spike protein and no longer neutralized the Delta variant. We also showed that the Delta variant is less sensitive to sera from naturally immunized individuals. > In individuals who had not previously been infected with SARS-CoV-2, a single dose of either the Pfizer or the AstraZeneca vaccine induced a barely detectable level of neutralizing antibodies against the Delta variant. About 10% of the sera neutralized this variant. However, a two-dose regimen generated high sero-neutralization levels against the Alpha, Beta and Delta variants in individuals sampled at week 8 to week 16 after vaccination. [0] Leave the armchair, get your booster shot. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03777-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03777-9
  - _red 5y ago
    Why then do you need the mask and 3rd shot?
User23 5y ago
> Only vaccinating those at-risk will keep this going and going for God knows how long, and regularly overcrowding hospitals with very corageous freedom fighters. The vaccine doesn’t keep people from spreading delta because it’s not a sterilizing vaccine[1][2]. It’s strange there was that big concern over asymptotic spread and the response was to administer an intervention that greatly increases asymptotic cases. > instead of playing armchair epidemiologist. You might want to take your own advice here. [1] https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/501677-what-is-sterilizing-immunity-and-do-we-need-it https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-c... [2] https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/02/02/1017161/covid-vaccine-asymptomatic-transmission-pfizer-trial/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/02/02/1017161/covid-va...
- tehjoker 5y ago
  You don't need a sterilizing vaccine. You only need to get R0 below 1. However, Delta is so infectious that mass vaccination will still need to be accompanied by social distancing and masking.... You can calculate different (average case) scenarios yourself with % needed to be vaccinated = (1 - 1/R0) for a sterilizing vaccine and add an adjustment factor for the vaccine efficacy. It's not pretty...
  - User23 5y ago
    How do you assuredly get R0 below one with a leaky vaccine[1]? R0 can stay >1 with 100% vaccination if the pathogen is contagious enough and the vaccine is leaky enough. Note that the reference I provided is from 2015, so we can rest assured it's not particularly politicized. There is a very real chance that we're going to look back on delta fondly if a Marek's disease type scenario unfolds. Then again that's pretty much optimal for big pharma if they have a vaccine that's effective against a hypothetical omega strain that will reliably kill or maim the unvaccinated. Edit: Here's a nice slide deck elaborating[2]. [1] https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou... [2] http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~denis/epi/edinburgh11/talks/Pellis.pdf http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~denis/epi/edinburgh11/talks/Pellis...

_red 5y ago

>Just get your shot instead of playing armchair epidemiologist. I've already had covid in 2020 and recently had another antibody test which still showed a strong response...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Uberphallus 5y ago
Antibodies are useless if they don't have the ability to bind to mutated proteins. > Some monoclonal antibodies, including bamlanivimab, lost their ability to bind to the spike protein and no longer neutralized the Delta variant. We also showed that the Delta variant is less sensitive to sera from naturally immunized individuals. > In individuals who had not previously been infected with SARS-CoV-2, a single dose of either the Pfizer or the AstraZeneca vaccine induced a barely detectable level of neutralizing antibodies against the Delta variant. About 10% of the sera neutralized this variant. However, a two-dose regimen generated high sero-neutralization levels against the Alpha, Beta and Delta variants in individuals sampled at week 8 to week 16 after vaccination. [0] Leave the armchair, get your booster shot. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03777-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03777-9
- _red 5y ago
  Why then do you need the mask and 3rd shot?

User23 5y ago

> Only vaccinating those at-risk will keep this going and going for God knows how long, and regularly overcrowding hospitals with very corageous freedom fighters. The vaccine doesn’t keep people from spreading delta because it’s not a sterilizing vaccine[1][2]. It’s strange there was that big concern over asymptotic spread and the response was to administer an intervention that greatly increases asymptotic cases. > instead of playing armchair epidemiologist. You might want to take your own advice here. [1] https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/501677-what-is-sterilizing-immunity-and-do-we-need-it https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-c... [2] https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/02/02/1017161/covid-vaccine-asymptomatic-transmission-pfizer-trial/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/02/02/1017161/covid-va...

tehjoker 5y ago
You don't need a sterilizing vaccine. You only need to get R0 below 1. However, Delta is so infectious that mass vaccination will still need to be accompanied by social distancing and masking.... You can calculate different (average case) scenarios yourself with % needed to be vaccinated = (1 - 1/R0) for a sterilizing vaccine and add an adjustment factor for the vaccine efficacy. It's not pretty...
- User23 5y ago
  How do you assuredly get R0 below one with a leaky vaccine[1]? R0 can stay >1 with 100% vaccination if the pathogen is contagious enough and the vaccine is leaky enough. Note that the reference I provided is from 2015, so we can rest assured it's not particularly politicized. There is a very real chance that we're going to look back on delta fondly if a Marek's disease type scenario unfolds. Then again that's pretty much optimal for big pharma if they have a vaccine that's effective against a hypothetical omega strain that will reliably kill or maim the unvaccinated. Edit: Here's a nice slide deck elaborating[2]. [1] https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou... [2] http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~denis/epi/edinburgh11/talks/Pellis.pdf http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~denis/epi/edinburgh11/talks/Pellis...