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In the short-term this is partly addressable by not parking EVs in garages, and perhaps long-term by new safety measures on both EVs and on garages to contain p
by pwthornton 5y ago
In the short-term this is partly addressable by not parking EVs in garages, and perhaps long-term by new safety measures on both EVs and on garages to contain potential fires.
But I have a related question: Are power walls also dangerous like this? They are also large lithium ion batteries.
- X6S1x6Okd1st 5y ago> and on garages to contain potential fires. I really hope this isn't the way this is solved.
- handrous 5y agoConstruction fire code changes all the time. The ones around here specifically for attached garages have added more requirements within the last decade or so, for instance.
- Arrath 5y agoBuilding code already mandated the garage being in a different/delayed 'fire envelope' than the habituated portion of my home when it was built, so at least in some jurisdictions we're already there. Thicker, fire resistant drywall. Spring-loaded fire doors to the main house that default to closed. No air vent passthrough from the garage to the house, and so on.
- jacquesm 5y agoI have an 8' separation between the two and it's all brick, that gives me a pretty safe feeling.
- nathanaldensr 5y agoChange garages to suit a defective, dangerous piece of equipment? You've got to be kidding.
- pwthornton 5y agoI think the question is, can you ever get to the point where storing a lithium-ion battery that large and energy dense is 100% safe? We are clearly going to see a switchover to EVs. If that's the case, building codes may need to adapt. We have tons of fire and building codes, and they are updated all the time. Why would accounting for EVs be any different than other advances that required updating of codes?
- mikepurvis 5y agoI believe Tesla pitches the Powerwall as being suitable for indoor and outdoor installation, but I was speaking recently with a solar professional who expressed horror at huge banks of batteries being installed anywhere other than the exterior of houses.
- Arrath 5y agoI wouldn't be against treating a powerwall install like ammunition storage in an armored vehicle. Firewalled from the house with fire suppression installed, blowout panels to the outside, the whole shebang.
- mikepurvis 5y agoIndeed, but that undermines the whole idea which is that it's a super cheap self-contained unit you can just install anywhere and all you need is an electrician with a hammer drill and a masonry bit.
- jacquesm 5y agoAgreed. When I installed a large battery backed PV installation I set it up with the batteries outside in a separate concrete underground bunker dug into the side of a (very convenient) hill.
- SavantIdiot 5y agoLithium Ion batteries are dangerous in general. I think they are more dangerous than gasoline: if I puncture my gas tank with an awl it doesn't explode in a 2000degC fire for 4 hours. It is scary, but necessary to adopt new tech IMHO, kinda like how the first Model T's could break your arm when you started them (by turning the crank).
- Nasrudith 5y agoI would disagree about lithium ion batteries being more dangerous - gasoline is far more energy dense for one. A slower release is actually a good thing for safety compared to the alternative, a very fast intense one. Besides, just a single mode of failure is not an apt comparison. - You cannot create a fuel air bomb by throwing lithium ion batteries into your basement and igniting it when the concentration is correct. - You cannot suffer carbon monoxide poisoning from lithium ion batteries.
- nobodyandproud 5y agoAir and oxygen are omnipresent. Sparks and fires are not.
- turtlebits 5y agoYes, anything with the same chemistry is also dangerous. I would hope Powerwalls would have better cell isolation as they aren't as constrained by weight and size as in a vehicle. That said, it looks like Tesla is going with LiFePo for powerwalls which is a much safer chemistry.
- fy20 5y agoSupposedly Tesla uses NCA for its cars and NMC for Powerwalls. Most other electric car manufacturers use NMC. However the properties of a battery vary greatly depending on the structure of the cell, and even more so on the cooling of the battery, so you should not compare them on chemistry alone. The reason why LiFePo4 (LFP) is safer is because it doesn't exhibit thermal runaway and is less energy dense. https://www.powertechsystems.eu/home/tech-corner/safety-of-lithium-ion-batteries/ https://www.powertechsystems.eu/home/tech-corner/safety-of-l...