5 ms·

You're ignoring that a significant portion of #2 have already got resistance via infection. There is no point whatsoever for those people to get vaccinated, apa

You're ignoring that a significant portion of #2 have already got resistance via infection. There is no point whatsoever for those people to get vaccinated, apart from padding out the pockets of Big Pharma. With the scale of vaccinations that we already have, COVID is firmly in the realm of influenza in terms of potential future deathtoll. In fact, for much of this year the UK had higher influenza deaths than COVID deaths: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/22/flu-pneumonia-deaths-now-ten-times-higher-covid/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/22/flu-pneumonia-de... Why don't we pressure people to get influenza vaccines yearly?

colinmhayes 5y ago
>There is no point whatsoever for those people to get vaccinated False, the vaccine is more effective than antibodies from a previous infection. It's not a huge difference, but it is absolutely statistically significant.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- aimkey 5y ago
  This message has been brought to you by Pfizer. Source or GTFO EDIT: Your downvotes are delicious as you provide no source. The notion of vaccine immunity being stronger than natural immunity, especially with mRNA vaccines, is absurd. You are generating response to a single surface protein of the virus. The virus has many surface proteins and a natural infection will tune the immune system to respond to all of them. There is no evidence of vaccine immunity being stronger than natural.
  - ghop02 5y ago
    There have been numerous studies showing that 2 doses elicits higher antibody responses than natural immunity alone, here's an example of one: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01325-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01325-6
    - aimkey 5y ago
      Useless paper. Measuring arbitrary antibody levels. The antibody levels produced by natural exposure could be sufficient to protect against hospitalization, and the additional vaccine dose could be unnecessary. Also, 21-day follow up (laughable). Show me some real-world data of previously infected individuals getting severe reinfections at significantly higher rates than the fully vaccinated. That's the metric needed to make your claim and those data have not been produced. Also, the staying power of the vaccine is already in question BY ITS OWN MANUFACTURER just via the prospect of boosters. They admit implicitly that the immunity their drug produces does not last.
    - criticaltinker 5y ago
      From the paper you cited: > circulating antibody levels alone are not definitive measures of immune status This is well established in the literature. The paper you have cited absolutely does not support the claim that the "vaccine is more effective than antibodies from a previous infection".
  - ryan_lane 5y ago
    Says the person that's also providing no source? Why is your statement somehow more trustworthy?
    - aimkey 5y ago
      Because before 2020, natural immunity to virtually any infectious disease was considered sufficient and superior to immunization. The entire concept of natural immunity being "not good enough' is brand new. It was never uttered before COVID, and it has never been proven even during COVID. It's an absurdity, that nobody in the realm of infectious disease even entertained before government started acting forcefully on behalf of pharmaceutical companies in the past 18 months. Go look for yourself. "Do I need varicella vaccine if I had chickenpox?" The answer is NO. >Oh, this is a different disease Okay, then produce a single study indicating that those with prior COVID infection are hospitalized with a reinfection at higher rates than the fully vaccinated. That study doesn't exist. It's all just arbitrary anti-body level response studies, which are useless. If you can't produce a study to show why this infectious disease should be treated differently than all the others, then we'll go with the default position: natural immunity is enough.
      - ryan_lane 5y ago
        Again, where is your source?
        aimkey 5y ago
        "Don't take the unproven, unjustified drug" is the default position in medicine. You are trying to shift the burden of proof here and it's embarrassing. YOU are making at least 3 positive claims when advocating vaccination for those with prior COVID infections: 1) COVID natural immunity breaks historical patterns of natural immunity in similar infectious disease 2) People with "only" natural immunity are at significant risk of severe reinfection 3) There is a risk-adjusted, significant benefit for those with "only" natural immunity to get vaccinated
- logicchains 5y ago
  Israel found that with delta it's the opposite: https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762 https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762. " Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection"
- criticaltinker 5y ago
  > the vaccine is more effective than antibodies from a previous infection Unless you can cite at least one peer-reviewed primary source, then we must regard your claims as purely uninformed opinion. And to further counter your claims, here is evidence that naturally acquired immunity is equally as effective as vaccination [1]. Quote from [1]: - "The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection remained almost zero among previously infected unvaccinated subjects, previously infected subjects who were vaccinated, and previously uninfected subjects who were vaccinated" [1] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v3.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v...
paraph1n 5y ago
> Why don't we pressure people to get influenza vaccines yearly? At least here in the US, we absolutely do.

colinmhayes 5y ago

>There is no point whatsoever for those people to get vaccinated False, the vaccine is more effective than antibodies from a previous infection. It's not a huge difference, but it is absolutely statistically significant.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
aimkey 5y ago
This message has been brought to you by Pfizer. Source or GTFO EDIT: Your downvotes are delicious as you provide no source. The notion of vaccine immunity being stronger than natural immunity, especially with mRNA vaccines, is absurd. You are generating response to a single surface protein of the virus. The virus has many surface proteins and a natural infection will tune the immune system to respond to all of them. There is no evidence of vaccine immunity being stronger than natural.
- ghop02 5y ago
  There have been numerous studies showing that 2 doses elicits higher antibody responses than natural immunity alone, here's an example of one: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01325-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01325-6
  - aimkey 5y ago
    Useless paper. Measuring arbitrary antibody levels. The antibody levels produced by natural exposure could be sufficient to protect against hospitalization, and the additional vaccine dose could be unnecessary. Also, 21-day follow up (laughable). Show me some real-world data of previously infected individuals getting severe reinfections at significantly higher rates than the fully vaccinated. That's the metric needed to make your claim and those data have not been produced. Also, the staying power of the vaccine is already in question BY ITS OWN MANUFACTURER just via the prospect of boosters. They admit implicitly that the immunity their drug produces does not last.
  - criticaltinker 5y ago
    From the paper you cited: > circulating antibody levels alone are not definitive measures of immune status This is well established in the literature. The paper you have cited absolutely does not support the claim that the "vaccine is more effective than antibodies from a previous infection".
- ryan_lane 5y ago
  Says the person that's also providing no source? Why is your statement somehow more trustworthy?
  - aimkey 5y ago
    Because before 2020, natural immunity to virtually any infectious disease was considered sufficient and superior to immunization. The entire concept of natural immunity being "not good enough' is brand new. It was never uttered before COVID, and it has never been proven even during COVID. It's an absurdity, that nobody in the realm of infectious disease even entertained before government started acting forcefully on behalf of pharmaceutical companies in the past 18 months. Go look for yourself. "Do I need varicella vaccine if I had chickenpox?" The answer is NO. >Oh, this is a different disease Okay, then produce a single study indicating that those with prior COVID infection are hospitalized with a reinfection at higher rates than the fully vaccinated. That study doesn't exist. It's all just arbitrary anti-body level response studies, which are useless. If you can't produce a study to show why this infectious disease should be treated differently than all the others, then we'll go with the default position: natural immunity is enough.
    - ryan_lane 5y ago
      Again, where is your source?
      - aimkey 5y ago
        "Don't take the unproven, unjustified drug" is the default position in medicine. You are trying to shift the burden of proof here and it's embarrassing. YOU are making at least 3 positive claims when advocating vaccination for those with prior COVID infections: 1) COVID natural immunity breaks historical patterns of natural immunity in similar infectious disease 2) People with "only" natural immunity are at significant risk of severe reinfection 3) There is a risk-adjusted, significant benefit for those with "only" natural immunity to get vaccinated
logicchains 5y ago
Israel found that with delta it's the opposite: https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762 https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762. " Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection"
criticaltinker 5y ago
> the vaccine is more effective than antibodies from a previous infection Unless you can cite at least one peer-reviewed primary source, then we must regard your claims as purely uninformed opinion. And to further counter your claims, here is evidence that naturally acquired immunity is equally as effective as vaccination [1]. Quote from [1]: - "The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection remained almost zero among previously infected unvaccinated subjects, previously infected subjects who were vaccinated, and previously uninfected subjects who were vaccinated" [1] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v3.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v...

paraph1n 5y ago

> Why don't we pressure people to get influenza vaccines yearly? At least here in the US, we absolutely do.