7 ms·

Tesla Model S garage fire follows pattern prompting warnings

66 points by joering2 5y ago

gamblor956 5y ago
Note: this fire was actually last year when there was a spate of EV fires, but was not reported publicly until today. The big takeaway from these fires is that proper safety for EVs might soon mean not leaving them in garages, especially those attached/part of residential structures. Expect insurance companies to adjust home insurance policies accordingly to account for EV fire risks.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > The big takeaway from these fires is that proper safety for EVs might soon mean not leaving them in garages Just add a fire suppressant system to the Powerwall it's hooked on.
  - tonyhb 5y ago
    Not sure it's as easy as adding a fire suppressant system to a garage. In many tesla crash reports firefighters leave the batteries to burn for hours, as there's no nice way to extinguish lithium fires.
    - aequitas 5y ago
      Standard procedure nowadays seems to be to dump the car in a container filled with water: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/bmw-i8-catches-fire-in-the-netherlands-firefighters-drop-it-in-water-container-133267.html https://www.autoevolution.com/news/bmw-i8-catches-fire-in-th...
      - tonyhb 5y ago
        This is absolutely insane and all I can think of is a total wipeout style dunk tank under our garages in case of fires.
  - TimSchumann 5y ago
    Uh, someone correct me if I'm wrong on this... but aren't most Lithium Ion battery chemistries self oxidizing? If that's the case, I don't think a fire suppression system would help.
    - kayodelycaon 5y ago
      You're correct. They are. That's why you can't put them out unless you drop the whole thing in a giant container of water.
    - i_am_proteus 5y ago
      It's possible to put the fire out by cooling the battery below ignition temperature, and depriving the fire of atmospheric oxygen certainly reduces the combustion rate, but the result for firefighters is that an enormous amount of water is required. Typical petroleum fires (gasoline, diesel) can be smothered with foam to put them out. No amount of heat will ignite these fuels without oxygen. Smother a self-oxidizing fire does not extinguish the fire. To remove heat, firefighters spray cold water on the fire, which is incompatible with smothering it (the water and steam push foam away), so the fire has atmospheric oxygen as well as oxidant from the fuel. Dropping the car into a tank of water accomplishes both - the water tank is a heat sink, cooling the car, and it also smothers the fire and removes atmospheric oxygen.
    - lb1lf 5y ago
      -I recall having read of at least two incidents where Norwegian firefighters simply dumped a truckload of sand over the burning vehicle. This happened in places where simply leaving it to burn out wasn't an option. Crude, but effective, apparently. Massive heatsink+depriving the fire of any oxygen not supplied by the decomposing battery.
- ghaff 5y ago
  Having to run a charging cable to your car parked away from the house/garage seems like a non-starter especially in areas of the country where it snows.
  - sjg007 5y ago
    Lol. People plug in engine block heaters all the time in the winter.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      When there's a snowstorm, ideally I like to get my car out of the way of snow plows.
      - sjg007 5y ago
        Sucks you have to park on the street.
        ghaff 5y ago
        I don't park on the street. I have a (long) driveway and parking area with garage. If my car isn't in the garage when plowing happens, I have a whole lot of manual shoveling to do.
foepys 5y ago
This is throwing a big wrench into the idea that EVs could help stabilize the grid in the era of relatively unreliable renewable energy sources. At least for now until better battery tech will emerge. Hopefully insurance will keep track of this and update their policies regularly.
- qweqwweqwe-90i 5y ago
  I wouldn't go that far, I'm going to guess that charging to 80% will be enough to reduce the risk.
yawaworht1978 5y ago
Dread to think of a Tesla battery fire in a garage with poor access for the fireworks.
pwthornton 5y ago
In the short-term this is partly addressable by not parking EVs in garages, and perhaps long-term by new safety measures on both EVs and on garages to contain potential fires. But I have a related question: Are power walls also dangerous like this? They are also large lithium ion batteries.
- X6S1x6Okd1st 5y ago
  > and on garages to contain potential fires. I really hope this isn't the way this is solved.
  - handrous 5y ago
    Construction fire code changes all the time. The ones around here specifically for attached garages have added more requirements within the last decade or so, for instance.
  - Arrath 5y ago
    Building code already mandated the garage being in a different/delayed 'fire envelope' than the habituated portion of my home when it was built, so at least in some jurisdictions we're already there. Thicker, fire resistant drywall. Spring-loaded fire doors to the main house that default to closed. No air vent passthrough from the garage to the house, and so on.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      I have an 8' separation between the two and it's all brick, that gives me a pretty safe feeling.
- nathanaldensr 5y ago
  Change garages to suit a defective, dangerous piece of equipment? You've got to be kidding.
  - pwthornton 5y ago
908087 5y ago
"Autopilot was not engaged during this fire, and the user was not supervising the vehicle in order to extinguish it. We've determined this fire to be the result of user error." - Tesla
thekalki 5y ago
I wish they provided more information on what caused the fire since this happened last year. Remember there is at least 250 gasoline car fires a day in comparison here is the source https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/03/500-gas-car-fires-per-day-can-we-please-get-serious-about-electric-car-battery-fires/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/03/500-gas-car-fires-per-d...
- lucb1e 5y ago
  I have literally never heard of a gasoline car fire, or at least not spontaneously in a garage (in response to an accident, sure). Source for 250 a day?
  - Arrath 5y ago
    https://www.autosafety.org/nhtsa-consumer-advisory-ford-cruise-control-switch-fires/ https://www.autosafety.org/nhtsa-consumer-advisory-ford-crui... >Failure to have the switch disconnected could lead to a vehicle fire at any time, whether or not the key is in the ignition, and whether or not owners use the cruise control system. The safety agency said the fire danger is present regardless of the age of the vehicle, and could even occur while the vehicle is parked and unattended. Several dwelling fires have been attributed to the problem. It can happen. That one was particularly bone headed design, but yeah. (I am in no way arguing that an old recall could have been responsible for the GP's claim of 250/day, just that spontaneous ICE vehicle fires have and do happen)
    - lucb1e 5y ago
      Not saying it could never possibly happen, just the particular claim of "this happens to hundreds of people daily" when I have not heard of this across, um, I've been a driver for more than a few hundred days, made me doubt that it was that common even if it's a worldwide stat.
- rs999gti 5y ago
  > Remember there is at least 250 gasoline car fires a day in comparison Citation please
SavantIdiot 5y ago
> The issue is causing mounting concern as a number of electric-vehicle makers have warned owners not to leave the cars charging unattended in certain circumstances, or sitting fully charged in garages. Wow. * Don't leave your car fully charged? Stop and think about the UX there. That's a completely new paradigm: don't completely fill you car with energy? Why not just stop the charging at 90% and call that 100%? What should you leave it at? (Drone batteries should be left at 50% if not going to be used soon.) * Don't leave your car unattended while charging? So I'm supposed to sit there and watch it charge? That's sort of an unacceptable usage model, IMHO.
- space_rock 5y ago
  The UI is already there. Tesla doesn't charge to 100% unless you configure it for a road trip
  - mdoms 5y ago
    Then something presumably isn't working right, because cars are still burning.
    - space_rock 5y ago
      I would like to know the extent of these problem and if there are other solutions. Seems this person did charge to 100%. Maybe this should be disabled for garages
  - ProfessorLayton 5y ago
    I believe OP is saying that 80/90% or whatever should be displayed as 100% to the user, the same way fuel gauges in ICE vehicles typically leave a large amount of fuel in the tank while displaying as "empty". This is mainly a U.S. practice, as many European countries like their gauges to be as accurate as possible.
    - lb1lf 5y ago
      > This is mainly a U.S. practice, as many European countries like their gauges to be as accurate as possible. -Add the Japanese to that list. My Land Cruiser's low fuel lamp comes on when there's 22L/5.75 US gallons left.
millerm 5y ago
Again, people go for the Tesla story. What about this list? https://allev.info/2021/07/list-of-known-chevy-bolt-fires/ https://allev.info/2021/07/list-of-known-chevy-bolt-fires/ Edit: It get it, here come the hate replies and down votes. Yes I know the article "mentions" others, but the title is again about Tesla and not EVs. I get it. The Tesla articles always get the talk though. I honestly hear "Oh, Teslas light on fire. Electric vehicles are bad." Ask about the Bolt "Those are electric? I thought they used gas." Let's see how many comments this article gets about this fire compared to the Bolt. The original Bolt talk here from 9 months ago had 106 comments. Heck even the latest post where GM had to recall the Bolt, again, had like 2 comments. Let's see how fast this one grows due to branding. It's so rare, but they (Tesla) get the real headlines.
- dralley 5y ago
  You do realize there were articles about those as well, right? Articles specifically from WaPo.
- olivermarks 5y ago
  Generally parked automotive fires are started by a 12 volt electrical fault that progresses to fuel lines and interior plastics and upholstery. This is not optimal but a lot easier to contain than parked lithium battery powered car fires which require 20 tons of water and several hours to extinguish, followed by removal to a safe place in case of reignition. Accident impact damaged battery gang fires are a lot more difficult to control due to unstable stored energy
- novok 5y ago
  If you read the article, it also mentions the bolt.
- gamblor956 5y ago
  Tesla is the market leader. More people have heard of Tesla. Tesla makes a lot of promises about safety. For all these reasons, something involving a Tesla is news in a ways that something involving a rare car like the Bolt is not (but note that the article also mentions Bolt and Kona fires as well). If Tesla can't take the heat, then maybe they should cut back on the self-congratulatory marketing.
jnwatson 5y ago
I don't mean to be a Tesla apologist, but what's the rate of cars with ICE engines catching on fire in garages? I only ask because (n=1) I recall a major house fire across the street from me that started in the attached garage when the car caught fire. The ultimate problem is the same: it takes a lot of stored energy to propel a car 300 miles, regardless of that energy source. Controlling that energy will be challenge regardless.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  According to the IIHS[1], the S burns more often than than the average vehice, and as does the X. [1] https://www.iihs.org/media/c93b98d8-6a7d-44a1-810e-4468ec539e05/uIu4tg/HLDI%20Research/Fire%20losses/HLDI%5C_FireLosses%5C_1218.pdf https://www.iihs.org/media/c93b98d8-6a7d-44a1-810e-4468ec539...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - lucb1e 5y ago
    From tables 1 and 2, about noncrash fire losses / insurance claims from cars built in 2016-2018 if I'm skimming this right: IVY RFC Make and series 36k 192 Tesla Model X 4dr electric 4WD 43k 140 Tesla Model S 4dr electric 4WD 50k 288 Dodge Charger HEMI 508k 101 Ford Fusion 151k 49 Honda Fit 21k 0 Chevrolet Sonic RFC = Relative claim frequency which has an asterisk in the document saying "100 = all-passenger-vehicle result". If 100 is all passenger vehicles... result? I can't parse this sentence, but I take it to mean that 100 is the average of all cars. IVY = Insured Vehicle Years, basically sample size Given that a car with 21k exposure years can have 0 claims, and there are also combustion vehicles with higher values, I'm not sure how statistically significant it is that these Tesla values are >100.
    - throwanem 5y ago
olivermarks 5y ago
Two recent major battery fires. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-02/a-tesla-big-battery-in-australia-is-burning-for-a-fourth-day?sref=RJ2RlMrh https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-02/a-tesla-b... https://insideevs.com/news/373722/truck-trailer-five-teslas-burns/ https://insideevs.com/news/373722/truck-trailer-five-teslas-... We need to start addressing the reality of gang fires from charged lithium batteries a lot more seriously.
trjordan 5y ago
This is terrible, obviously. Where possible, all EV makers should protect against this. Gas cars may not catch fire when they sit in a garage, but they're not perfectly safe. My parents' friend left the car on one night, by accident. The carbon monoxide killed half the family. There's low-probability tragedies around us, each a little different. There's no silver bullet.
- didntknowya 5y ago
  leaving a gasoline car running is a foolproof and expected way to gas your room. you would not expect disaster when leaving an EV charging
kjksf 5y ago
This is a fine hit piece coming from Jeff "can't compete with SpaceX" Bezos' WaPo. It starts with the headline: > It’s a risk many automakers are taking seriously. Implying Tesla doesn't take this seriously. And the argument: other car makers recalled cars for fire risk. What if the reason is that Tesla didn't find a defect that warrants a recall? If we assume that regulatory bodies are not somehow favoring Tesla, more recalls by other car makers show that Tesla cars are safer in that regard. It would also imply that Tesla took this issue seriously before they released the cars, not after. And also this gem: > Tesla in the past has argued that its cars are a tenth as likely to catch fire as gas-powered vehicles, drawing on data from the National Fire Protection Association and U.S. Federal Highway Administration. > Still, safety experts note that the fires can burn more intensely and last much longer. So, the government data show that Tesla cars are safer than gas cars wrt. fires. WaPo doesn't dispute that. Still, they manage to spin that superior safety of Tesla with some shade. > The Washington Post has documented at least five fires You don't say. Five out 1.5 million cars. > Tesla had come under scrutiny over concerns it allegedly manipulated battery software in older vehicles to lessen the risk of fire. So when Tesla releases a software update to lessen the probability of fire (something GM also did recently after many Bolt fires), WaPo says it's "manipulating battery software". This whole article is just trying to make people think that Tesla is uniquely bad at fires when the reality is that not only electric cars are safer than gas cars AND Tesla cars are safer than other electric cars.
mgarfias 5y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20210804203108if_/https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/08/04/tesla-fire/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210804203108if_/https://www.wa...
thrwyoilarticle 5y ago
So if you're supervising your vehicle being charged and it catches fire, what do you do? Are you stuck waiting for the fire brigade anyway?
- admax88q 5y ago
  Yep but you can call them early rather than finding your whole house in fire and then calling them.
- didntknowya 5y ago
  not much you can do really since the standard way to put out an EV fire is to let it burn completely
rasz 5y ago
Tesla detected charging problem and send a message, but a battery pack crammed with temperature sensors didnt notice being on fire?
nunez 5y ago
> Gasoline driven cars don’t catch fire in the garage when they’re sitting there. And that’s the difference,” Lol. I was 14. I was working on something when I was suddenly startled by a really loud noise out of nowhere. Our neighbors Caddy Escalade spontaneously caught fire. Out of nowhere.
nunez 5y ago
> Gasoline driven cars don’t catch fire in the garage when they’re sitting there. And that’s the difference,” Lol. I was 14. I was working on something when I was suddenly startled by a really loud noise out of nowhere. Our neighbors Caddy Escalade spontaneously caught fire. Out of nowhere. That said, a car that combusts out of nowhere is terrifying as hell
space_rock 5y ago
Just in case you think if you have gasoline in your car the risk is 0 "If you own one of these cars, vans or SUVs, don’t park them in a garage, automaker says Kia, Hyundai recall more than 700,000 vehicles for potential fire risk in anti-lock brake system" https://www.clickorlando.com/news/investigators/2020/03/02/if-you-own-one-of-these-cars-vans-or-suvs-dont-park-them-in-a-garage-automaker-says/?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true https://www.clickorlando.com/news/investigators/2020/03/02/i...

66 points by joering2 5y ago

Note: this fire was actually last year when there was a spate of EV fires, but was not reported publicly until today. The big takeaway from these fires is that proper safety for EVs might soon mean not leaving them in garages, especially those attached/part of residential structures. Expect insurance companies to adjust home insurance policies accordingly to account for EV fire risks.

908B64B197 5y ago
> The big takeaway from these fires is that proper safety for EVs might soon mean not leaving them in garages Just add a fire suppressant system to the Powerwall it's hooked on.
- tonyhb 5y ago
  Not sure it's as easy as adding a fire suppressant system to a garage. In many tesla crash reports firefighters leave the batteries to burn for hours, as there's no nice way to extinguish lithium fires.
  - aequitas 5y ago
    Standard procedure nowadays seems to be to dump the car in a container filled with water: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/bmw-i8-catches-fire-in-the-netherlands-firefighters-drop-it-in-water-container-133267.html https://www.autoevolution.com/news/bmw-i8-catches-fire-in-th...
    - tonyhb 5y ago
      This is absolutely insane and all I can think of is a total wipeout style dunk tank under our garages in case of fires.
- TimSchumann 5y ago
  Uh, someone correct me if I'm wrong on this... but aren't most Lithium Ion battery chemistries self oxidizing? If that's the case, I don't think a fire suppression system would help.
  - kayodelycaon 5y ago
    You're correct. They are. That's why you can't put them out unless you drop the whole thing in a giant container of water.
  - i_am_proteus 5y ago
    It's possible to put the fire out by cooling the battery below ignition temperature, and depriving the fire of atmospheric oxygen certainly reduces the combustion rate, but the result for firefighters is that an enormous amount of water is required. Typical petroleum fires (gasoline, diesel) can be smothered with foam to put them out. No amount of heat will ignite these fuels without oxygen. Smother a self-oxidizing fire does not extinguish the fire. To remove heat, firefighters spray cold water on the fire, which is incompatible with smothering it (the water and steam push foam away), so the fire has atmospheric oxygen as well as oxidant from the fuel. Dropping the car into a tank of water accomplishes both - the water tank is a heat sink, cooling the car, and it also smothers the fire and removes atmospheric oxygen.
  - lb1lf 5y ago
    -I recall having read of at least two incidents where Norwegian firefighters simply dumped a truckload of sand over the burning vehicle. This happened in places where simply leaving it to burn out wasn't an option. Crude, but effective, apparently. Massive heatsink+depriving the fire of any oxygen not supplied by the decomposing battery.
ghaff 5y ago
Having to run a charging cable to your car parked away from the house/garage seems like a non-starter especially in areas of the country where it snows.
- sjg007 5y ago
  Lol. People plug in engine block heaters all the time in the winter.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    When there's a snowstorm, ideally I like to get my car out of the way of snow plows.
    - sjg007 5y ago
      Sucks you have to park on the street.
      - ghaff 5y ago
        I don't park on the street. I have a (long) driveway and parking area with garage. If my car isn't in the garage when plowing happens, I have a whole lot of manual shoveling to do.

foepys 5y ago

This is throwing a big wrench into the idea that EVs could help stabilize the grid in the era of relatively unreliable renewable energy sources. At least for now until better battery tech will emerge. Hopefully insurance will keep track of this and update their policies regularly.

qweqwweqwe-90i 5y ago
I wouldn't go that far, I'm going to guess that charging to 80% will be enough to reduce the risk.

yawaworht1978 5y ago

Dread to think of a Tesla battery fire in a garage with poor access for the fireworks.

pwthornton 5y ago

In the short-term this is partly addressable by not parking EVs in garages, and perhaps long-term by new safety measures on both EVs and on garages to contain potential fires. But I have a related question: Are power walls also dangerous like this? They are also large lithium ion batteries.

X6S1x6Okd1st 5y ago
> and on garages to contain potential fires. I really hope this isn't the way this is solved.
- handrous 5y ago
  Construction fire code changes all the time. The ones around here specifically for attached garages have added more requirements within the last decade or so, for instance.
- Arrath 5y ago
  Building code already mandated the garage being in a different/delayed 'fire envelope' than the habituated portion of my home when it was built, so at least in some jurisdictions we're already there. Thicker, fire resistant drywall. Spring-loaded fire doors to the main house that default to closed. No air vent passthrough from the garage to the house, and so on.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    I have an 8' separation between the two and it's all brick, that gives me a pretty safe feeling.
nathanaldensr 5y ago
Change garages to suit a defective, dangerous piece of equipment? You've got to be kidding.
- pwthornton 5y ago

908087 5y ago

"Autopilot was not engaged during this fire, and the user was not supervising the vehicle in order to extinguish it. We've determined this fire to be the result of user error." - Tesla

thekalki 5y ago

I wish they provided more information on what caused the fire since this happened last year. Remember there is at least 250 gasoline car fires a day in comparison here is the source https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/03/500-gas-car-fires-per-day-can-we-please-get-serious-about-electric-car-battery-fires/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/03/500-gas-car-fires-per-d...

lucb1e 5y ago
I have literally never heard of a gasoline car fire, or at least not spontaneously in a garage (in response to an accident, sure). Source for 250 a day?
- Arrath 5y ago
  https://www.autosafety.org/nhtsa-consumer-advisory-ford-cruise-control-switch-fires/ https://www.autosafety.org/nhtsa-consumer-advisory-ford-crui... >Failure to have the switch disconnected could lead to a vehicle fire at any time, whether or not the key is in the ignition, and whether or not owners use the cruise control system. The safety agency said the fire danger is present regardless of the age of the vehicle, and could even occur while the vehicle is parked and unattended. Several dwelling fires have been attributed to the problem. It can happen. That one was particularly bone headed design, but yeah. (I am in no way arguing that an old recall could have been responsible for the GP's claim of 250/day, just that spontaneous ICE vehicle fires have and do happen)
  - lucb1e 5y ago
    Not saying it could never possibly happen, just the particular claim of "this happens to hundreds of people daily" when I have not heard of this across, um, I've been a driver for more than a few hundred days, made me doubt that it was that common even if it's a worldwide stat.
rs999gti 5y ago
> Remember there is at least 250 gasoline car fires a day in comparison Citation please

SavantIdiot 5y ago

> The issue is causing mounting concern as a number of electric-vehicle makers have warned owners not to leave the cars charging unattended in certain circumstances, or sitting fully charged in garages. Wow. * Don't leave your car fully charged? Stop and think about the UX there. That's a completely new paradigm: don't completely fill you car with energy? Why not just stop the charging at 90% and call that 100%? What should you leave it at? (Drone batteries should be left at 50% if not going to be used soon.) * Don't leave your car unattended while charging? So I'm supposed to sit there and watch it charge? That's sort of an unacceptable usage model, IMHO.

space_rock 5y ago
The UI is already there. Tesla doesn't charge to 100% unless you configure it for a road trip
- mdoms 5y ago
  Then something presumably isn't working right, because cars are still burning.
  - space_rock 5y ago
    I would like to know the extent of these problem and if there are other solutions. Seems this person did charge to 100%. Maybe this should be disabled for garages
- ProfessorLayton 5y ago
  I believe OP is saying that 80/90% or whatever should be displayed as 100% to the user, the same way fuel gauges in ICE vehicles typically leave a large amount of fuel in the tank while displaying as "empty". This is mainly a U.S. practice, as many European countries like their gauges to be as accurate as possible.
  - lb1lf 5y ago
    > This is mainly a U.S. practice, as many European countries like their gauges to be as accurate as possible. -Add the Japanese to that list. My Land Cruiser's low fuel lamp comes on when there's 22L/5.75 US gallons left.

millerm 5y ago

Again, people go for the Tesla story. What about this list? https://allev.info/2021/07/list-of-known-chevy-bolt-fires/ https://allev.info/2021/07/list-of-known-chevy-bolt-fires/ Edit: It get it, here come the hate replies and down votes. Yes I know the article "mentions" others, but the title is again about Tesla and not EVs. I get it. The Tesla articles always get the talk though. I honestly hear "Oh, Teslas light on fire. Electric vehicles are bad." Ask about the Bolt "Those are electric? I thought they used gas." Let's see how many comments this article gets about this fire compared to the Bolt. The original Bolt talk here from 9 months ago had 106 comments. Heck even the latest post where GM had to recall the Bolt, again, had like 2 comments. Let's see how fast this one grows due to branding. It's so rare, but they (Tesla) get the real headlines.

dralley 5y ago
You do realize there were articles about those as well, right? Articles specifically from WaPo.
olivermarks 5y ago
Generally parked automotive fires are started by a 12 volt electrical fault that progresses to fuel lines and interior plastics and upholstery. This is not optimal but a lot easier to contain than parked lithium battery powered car fires which require 20 tons of water and several hours to extinguish, followed by removal to a safe place in case of reignition. Accident impact damaged battery gang fires are a lot more difficult to control due to unstable stored energy
novok 5y ago
If you read the article, it also mentions the bolt.
gamblor956 5y ago
Tesla is the market leader. More people have heard of Tesla. Tesla makes a lot of promises about safety. For all these reasons, something involving a Tesla is news in a ways that something involving a rare car like the Bolt is not (but note that the article also mentions Bolt and Kona fires as well). If Tesla can't take the heat, then maybe they should cut back on the self-congratulatory marketing.

jnwatson 5y ago

I don't mean to be a Tesla apologist, but what's the rate of cars with ICE engines catching on fire in garages? I only ask because (n=1) I recall a major house fire across the street from me that started in the attached garage when the car caught fire. The ultimate problem is the same: it takes a lot of stored energy to propel a car 300 miles, regardless of that energy source. Controlling that energy will be challenge regardless.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
heavyset_go 5y ago
According to the IIHS[1], the S burns more often than than the average vehice, and as does the X. [1] https://www.iihs.org/media/c93b98d8-6a7d-44a1-810e-4468ec539e05/uIu4tg/HLDI%20Research/Fire%20losses/HLDI%5C_FireLosses%5C_1218.pdf https://www.iihs.org/media/c93b98d8-6a7d-44a1-810e-4468ec539...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lucb1e 5y ago
  From tables 1 and 2, about noncrash fire losses / insurance claims from cars built in 2016-2018 if I'm skimming this right: IVY RFC Make and series 36k 192 Tesla Model X 4dr electric 4WD 43k 140 Tesla Model S 4dr electric 4WD 50k 288 Dodge Charger HEMI 508k 101 Ford Fusion 151k 49 Honda Fit 21k 0 Chevrolet Sonic RFC = Relative claim frequency which has an asterisk in the document saying "100 = all-passenger-vehicle result". If 100 is all passenger vehicles... result? I can't parse this sentence, but I take it to mean that 100 is the average of all cars. IVY = Insured Vehicle Years, basically sample size Given that a car with 21k exposure years can have 0 claims, and there are also combustion vehicles with higher values, I'm not sure how statistically significant it is that these Tesla values are >100.
  - throwanem 5y ago

olivermarks 5y ago

Two recent major battery fires. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-02/a-tesla-big-battery-in-australia-is-burning-for-a-fourth-day?sref=RJ2RlMrh https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-02/a-tesla-b... https://insideevs.com/news/373722/truck-trailer-five-teslas-burns/ https://insideevs.com/news/373722/truck-trailer-five-teslas-... We need to start addressing the reality of gang fires from charged lithium batteries a lot more seriously.

trjordan 5y ago

This is terrible, obviously. Where possible, all EV makers should protect against this. Gas cars may not catch fire when they sit in a garage, but they're not perfectly safe. My parents' friend left the car on one night, by accident. The carbon monoxide killed half the family. There's low-probability tragedies around us, each a little different. There's no silver bullet.

didntknowya 5y ago
leaving a gasoline car running is a foolproof and expected way to gas your room. you would not expect disaster when leaving an EV charging

kjksf 5y ago

This is a fine hit piece coming from Jeff "can't compete with SpaceX" Bezos' WaPo. It starts with the headline: > It’s a risk many automakers are taking seriously. Implying Tesla doesn't take this seriously. And the argument: other car makers recalled cars for fire risk. What if the reason is that Tesla didn't find a defect that warrants a recall? If we assume that regulatory bodies are not somehow favoring Tesla, more recalls by other car makers show that Tesla cars are safer in that regard. It would also imply that Tesla took this issue seriously before they released the cars, not after. And also this gem: > Tesla in the past has argued that its cars are a tenth as likely to catch fire as gas-powered vehicles, drawing on data from the National Fire Protection Association and U.S. Federal Highway Administration. > Still, safety experts note that the fires can burn more intensely and last much longer. So, the government data show that Tesla cars are safer than gas cars wrt. fires. WaPo doesn't dispute that. Still, they manage to spin that superior safety of Tesla with some shade. > The Washington Post has documented at least five fires You don't say. Five out 1.5 million cars. > Tesla had come under scrutiny over concerns it allegedly manipulated battery software in older vehicles to lessen the risk of fire. So when Tesla releases a software update to lessen the probability of fire (something GM also did recently after many Bolt fires), WaPo says it's "manipulating battery software". This whole article is just trying to make people think that Tesla is uniquely bad at fires when the reality is that not only electric cars are safer than gas cars AND Tesla cars are safer than other electric cars.

mgarfias 5y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20210804203108if_/https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/08/04/tesla-fire/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210804203108if_/https://www.wa...

thrwyoilarticle 5y ago

So if you're supervising your vehicle being charged and it catches fire, what do you do? Are you stuck waiting for the fire brigade anyway?

admax88q 5y ago
Yep but you can call them early rather than finding your whole house in fire and then calling them.
didntknowya 5y ago
not much you can do really since the standard way to put out an EV fire is to let it burn completely

rasz 5y ago

Tesla detected charging problem and send a message, but a battery pack crammed with temperature sensors didnt notice being on fire?

nunez 5y ago

> Gasoline driven cars don’t catch fire in the garage when they’re sitting there. And that’s the difference,” Lol. I was 14. I was working on something when I was suddenly startled by a really loud noise out of nowhere. Our neighbors Caddy Escalade spontaneously caught fire. Out of nowhere.

nunez 5y ago

space_rock 5y ago

Just in case you think if you have gasoline in your car the risk is 0 "If you own one of these cars, vans or SUVs, don’t park them in a garage, automaker says Kia, Hyundai recall more than 700,000 vehicles for potential fire risk in anti-lock brake system" https://www.clickorlando.com/news/investigators/2020/03/02/if-you-own-one-of-these-cars-vans-or-suvs-dont-park-them-in-a-garage-automaker-says/?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true https://www.clickorlando.com/news/investigators/2020/03/02/i...