5 ms·

A bit off topic but you know what’s really jarring for me? For the past ten years I’ve agreed with the majority on hacker news on almost every issue. Software

A bit off topic but you know what’s really jarring for me? For the past ten years I’ve agreed with the majority on hacker news on almost every issue. Software patents, voting rights, who knows what else. Everyone seemed to just find the right answer and it made sense. Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It really feels like a twilight zone episode.

grllierg 5y ago
This is real. There has been a total invasion of commies to HN over the past decade. I don't know if it's the schools to blame or what but something has definitely flipped. Hackers, as a demographic used to be hard-core libertarian (not necessarily a party member).
- anigbrowl 5y ago
  You've been here a decade but your account was created today and you've not read the guidelines? A little hard to credit.
  - chana_masala 5y ago
    Probably a throwaway
  - dead-snake 5y ago
    No big explanation is needed there -- many posters including myself get shadowbanned within hours of account creation, for nothing more than having the wrong opinion.
- dead-snake 5y ago
  This is the truth. People here are overwhelmingly advocating what I think is probably the most dangerous argument I've ever seen seriously advanced, that some medical procedures are not eligible to be decided by the individual, because they're matters of public health. If we go down that road, what government injection proffered in the name of public health could ever be refused? It's not as if you won't still be labelled a selfish anti-science anti-vaxxer if you refuse, say, the tenth injection rather than the first one.
crazygringo 5y ago
What are you talking about? The vast majority of comments here seem to be against this policy. So how does that make you a tiny minority on HN?
- mrfusion 5y ago
  Sorry I think it was leaning the other way when I wrote the comment. At least the top section I read through. Good news. I’ll leave my comment up.
bwship 5y ago
This is a really interesting point. And I felt the same exact way, but over the past few weeks, there seems to be more and more people on HN that are against all this government overreach. So, I personally, am starting to feel better that there are many more that feel like I do than I thought.
tehwebguy 5y ago
> I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies You still can, with limited exceptions: * Kids need to be vaccinated against ~9 ailments before they attend school (seems mandatory but homeschool is an option in every state) * Adults need to be vaccinated against one before they patronize indoor restaurants, entertainment venues and gyms (completely optional activities and only in the densest city in the US, probably some others will follow) There are also things you are banned from putting in your body, some by age (tobacco & alcohol) and some entirely (e.g. DEA scheduled drugs) and some controlled to the point that are effectively illegal to consume (e.g. meats that aren't allowed to be harvested or imported)
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  > Adults need to be vaccinated against one before they patronize indoor restaurants, entertainment venues and gyms (completely optional activities and only in the densest city in the US, probably some others will follow) Also, adults that want to attend college classes on campus need to provide schools with proof of vaccination for about a half-dozen diseases. This was the case 20+ years ago, and it's still the case today.
  - compscistd 5y ago
    So why did vaccinations suddenly become a huge problem with people today? Are these people who were never going to go to college but would have caused a fuss if the school demanded vaccination records? Or is it the right politicizing a health issue with misinformation? Maybe it’s even the left pushing vaccines that suddenly has people reflexively twitching their combative muscles?
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      Divide-and-conquer tribalistic politics.
- huntermeyer 5y ago
  The vaccines kids have to get have a very high (near certainty) probability of preventing them from contracting the particular illness. The covid vaccines do not. People are still getting covid after being vaccinated. This is happening a lot.
titzer 5y ago
> Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It's just being selective, because you had to be vaccinated to go to school and/or college. And ain't nobody alive today that can choose to not ingest microplastics, PFAs, pesticides, many can't avoid lead in their drinking water, and none of us can avoid air pollution. And COVID for that matter! I would like to choose to not put COVID in my body! It'd be great if I could CHOOSE that. But people are just wandering around spreading the plague like that's their constitutional right. Your unvaccinated fist is right in my face.
- johndevor 5y ago
  > Your unvaccinated fist is right in my face. Then get vaccinated and your risk goes down to a regular flu season.
  - titzer 5y ago
    I did, except the collective petri dish created by the unvaccinated pool means that the risk is actually worse, and seems to be increasing as life, uh, finds a way. All hail the march of greek letters coming our way. It seems Lambda will be next.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  I agree with you (pro-vaccines) but the same can be said about "Your emergency approved vaccine fist is right in my face" is what the other side is probably thinking as well. Pesticides, removing lead from water, etc. do not happen on the client-side by taking an experimental pill that produces proteins to fight microplastics, heavy elements, etc.
- logicchains 5y ago
  >But people are just wandering around spreading the plague like that's their constitutional right. Your unvaccinated fist is right in my face. This kind of thinking is the root of the problem: so many people nowadays are so completely devoid of values that they have no problem infringing on other people's fundamental rights just to minimise risk to themselves. In decades past Americans were willing to die to protect the freedoms of their fellow countrymen, now they're so spineless they'd rather destroy other people's freedoms just to prevent a risk that's incredibly miniscule considering they're already vaccinated.
ds206 5y ago
I'm feeling the same way. Also, it's like the vaccine debate has turned into the same arguments as the pro-life/pro-choice debates.
compscistd 5y ago
Interestingly, this thread has got me surprised that there are so many vaccine skeptics or people that have such a deep mistrust in these vaccination incentives. You do have a right to choose. This isn’t a vaccine mandate. It’s the vaccinated asking to be separated from unvaccinated individuals in high risk places of recreation (restaurants, movie theaters, gyms, and large venues). Meanwhile, mask mandates will likely stay in place for places where it isn’t possible or important to separate the vaccinated and unvaccinated (grocery stores, MTA, healthcare settings, the great outdoors). To avoid antagonizing the unvaccinated and reducing spread for high risk individuals that don’t have a choice, grocery stores are requiring masks for everyone still. So what are people so in arms about? Overreaching? This isn't (legal, ethical) overreaching, this is using data to drive the economy forward without killing people in ways that have been supported by the courts for almost a century. The more we reduce cases, the less likely we get a variant that’s worse than Delta. While we’re discussing gripes, the states that were in staunch opposition to mandatory vaccines (*and masks*) are the ones that reopened the earliest and with the highest cases. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Read stories from people who are on their death bed from COVID, some ask for the vaccine (it’s too late), others still deny that it could have saved their lives.
quotemstr 5y ago
Welcome to the club. I've been consistently anti-censorship and pro-freedom-of-speech for as long as I can remember, and I lost touch with the majority here years ago. The sudden lurch toward authoritarian in the tech world was something that I didn't expect and that I still lament.
dbsmith83 5y ago
Might be time to reevaluate your position and examine your gross simplification of the issue
lodi 5y ago
Agreed. And furthermore it's distressing to see hundreds of well-written, good-faith comments downvoted to oblivion for holding the wrong opinion. I thought on hn we downvoted for meta-concerns like being off-topic or ad hominem, and not as a "dislike" button.
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  Its acceptable to downvote to signal "disagree".

grllierg 5y ago

This is real. There has been a total invasion of commies to HN over the past decade. I don't know if it's the schools to blame or what but something has definitely flipped. Hackers, as a demographic used to be hard-core libertarian (not necessarily a party member).

anigbrowl 5y ago
You've been here a decade but your account was created today and you've not read the guidelines? A little hard to credit.
- chana_masala 5y ago
  Probably a throwaway
- dead-snake 5y ago
  No big explanation is needed there -- many posters including myself get shadowbanned within hours of account creation, for nothing more than having the wrong opinion.
dead-snake 5y ago
This is the truth. People here are overwhelmingly advocating what I think is probably the most dangerous argument I've ever seen seriously advanced, that some medical procedures are not eligible to be decided by the individual, because they're matters of public health. If we go down that road, what government injection proffered in the name of public health could ever be refused? It's not as if you won't still be labelled a selfish anti-science anti-vaxxer if you refuse, say, the tenth injection rather than the first one.

crazygringo 5y ago

What are you talking about? The vast majority of comments here seem to be against this policy. So how does that make you a tiny minority on HN?

mrfusion 5y ago
Sorry I think it was leaning the other way when I wrote the comment. At least the top section I read through. Good news. I’ll leave my comment up.

bwship 5y ago

This is a really interesting point. And I felt the same exact way, but over the past few weeks, there seems to be more and more people on HN that are against all this government overreach. So, I personally, am starting to feel better that there are many more that feel like I do than I thought.

tehwebguy 5y ago

> I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies You still can, with limited exceptions: * Kids need to be vaccinated against ~9 ailments before they attend school (seems mandatory but homeschool is an option in every state) * Adults need to be vaccinated against one before they patronize indoor restaurants, entertainment venues and gyms (completely optional activities and only in the densest city in the US, probably some others will follow) There are also things you are banned from putting in your body, some by age (tobacco & alcohol) and some entirely (e.g. DEA scheduled drugs) and some controlled to the point that are effectively illegal to consume (e.g. meats that aren't allowed to be harvested or imported)

heavyset_go 5y ago
> Adults need to be vaccinated against one before they patronize indoor restaurants, entertainment venues and gyms (completely optional activities and only in the densest city in the US, probably some others will follow) Also, adults that want to attend college classes on campus need to provide schools with proof of vaccination for about a half-dozen diseases. This was the case 20+ years ago, and it's still the case today.
- compscistd 5y ago
  So why did vaccinations suddenly become a huge problem with people today? Are these people who were never going to go to college but would have caused a fuss if the school demanded vaccination records? Or is it the right politicizing a health issue with misinformation? Maybe it’s even the left pushing vaccines that suddenly has people reflexively twitching their combative muscles?
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Divide-and-conquer tribalistic politics.
huntermeyer 5y ago
The vaccines kids have to get have a very high (near certainty) probability of preventing them from contracting the particular illness. The covid vaccines do not. People are still getting covid after being vaccinated. This is happening a lot.

titzer 5y ago

> Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It's just being selective, because you had to be vaccinated to go to school and/or college. And ain't nobody alive today that can choose to not ingest microplastics, PFAs, pesticides, many can't avoid lead in their drinking water, and none of us can avoid air pollution. And COVID for that matter! I would like to choose to not put COVID in my body! It'd be great if I could CHOOSE that. But people are just wandering around spreading the plague like that's their constitutional right. Your unvaccinated fist is right in my face.

johndevor 5y ago
> Your unvaccinated fist is right in my face. Then get vaccinated and your risk goes down to a regular flu season.
- titzer 5y ago
  I did, except the collective petri dish created by the unvaccinated pool means that the risk is actually worse, and seems to be increasing as life, uh, finds a way. All hail the march of greek letters coming our way. It seems Lambda will be next.
systemvoltage 5y ago
I agree with you (pro-vaccines) but the same can be said about "Your emergency approved vaccine fist is right in my face" is what the other side is probably thinking as well. Pesticides, removing lead from water, etc. do not happen on the client-side by taking an experimental pill that produces proteins to fight microplastics, heavy elements, etc.
logicchains 5y ago
>But people are just wandering around spreading the plague like that's their constitutional right. Your unvaccinated fist is right in my face. This kind of thinking is the root of the problem: so many people nowadays are so completely devoid of values that they have no problem infringing on other people's fundamental rights just to minimise risk to themselves. In decades past Americans were willing to die to protect the freedoms of their fellow countrymen, now they're so spineless they'd rather destroy other people's freedoms just to prevent a risk that's incredibly miniscule considering they're already vaccinated.

ds206 5y ago

I'm feeling the same way. Also, it's like the vaccine debate has turned into the same arguments as the pro-life/pro-choice debates.

compscistd 5y ago

Interestingly, this thread has got me surprised that there are so many vaccine skeptics or people that have such a deep mistrust in these vaccination incentives. You do have a right to choose. This isn’t a vaccine mandate. It’s the vaccinated asking to be separated from unvaccinated individuals in high risk places of recreation (restaurants, movie theaters, gyms, and large venues). Meanwhile, mask mandates will likely stay in place for places where it isn’t possible or important to separate the vaccinated and unvaccinated (grocery stores, MTA, healthcare settings, the great outdoors). To avoid antagonizing the unvaccinated and reducing spread for high risk individuals that don’t have a choice, grocery stores are requiring masks for everyone still. So what are people so in arms about? Overreaching? This isn't (legal, ethical) overreaching, this is using data to drive the economy forward without killing people in ways that have been supported by the courts for almost a century. The more we reduce cases, the less likely we get a variant that’s worse than Delta. While we’re discussing gripes, the states that were in staunch opposition to mandatory vaccines (*and masks*) are the ones that reopened the earliest and with the highest cases. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Read stories from people who are on their death bed from COVID, some ask for the vaccine (it’s too late), others still deny that it could have saved their lives.

quotemstr 5y ago

Welcome to the club. I've been consistently anti-censorship and pro-freedom-of-speech for as long as I can remember, and I lost touch with the majority here years ago. The sudden lurch toward authoritarian in the tech world was something that I didn't expect and that I still lament.

dbsmith83 5y ago

Might be time to reevaluate your position and examine your gross simplification of the issue

lodi 5y ago

Agreed. And furthermore it's distressing to see hundreds of well-written, good-faith comments downvoted to oblivion for holding the wrong opinion. I thought on hn we downvoted for meta-concerns like being off-topic or ad hominem, and not as a "dislike" button.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago
Its acceptable to downvote to signal "disagree".