7 ms·

When you use a lot of contractor developers, being able to provision out devices for temporary work is powerful. A lot of time is spent provisioning machines,

When you use a lot of contractor developers, being able to provision out devices for temporary work is powerful. A lot of time is spent provisioning machines, white listing ips, setting up VPNs, and getting the contractor to the point where they can work. In some cases I've seen it take 2 or 3 weeks to get a contractor up and running on a 6 month contract. Being able to give them credentials to a machine that's ready to go is pretty huge.

mongol 5y ago
Yes the answer must be something like this. You can implement BYOD throughout the organization.
betaby 5y ago
I still didn't get how bare Windows VM can speed up a new developer on-boarding. In all my jobs slowest part was always familiarization with a new build/deploy environment. OS/Laptop setup was always trivial and took 1-2 day max, even in orgs with 20k employees.
- ehutch79 5y ago
  "No one told us about a new hire... when do they start... what do you mean a week ago?" is a big delay in new employee onboarding
  - edoceo 5y ago
    That seems really far along the process to recognize the mistakes.
    - ehutch79 5y ago
      You'd think that?
  - ed_elliott_asc 5y ago
    “We don’t give admin right to install software” (except they do, you just need to ask the right person - there is always someone who will)
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      If you don't have admin on your workstation, that's a huge red flag.
      - ehutch79 5y ago
        Only if you're a dev or something, general office workers don't need admin access. Though I'll add pretty much anything legit to our self service installs.
      - tatersolid 5y ago
        Nearly every compromised or bricked workstation I’ve seen in the last 20 years was a developer’s (or QA) machine with local root/admin. Standard users don’t get local root/admin in a corporate environment since the Win2k days, and seem to have few issues in comparison. Many devs seem perfectly willing to pull any random executable off the internet and run it without inspection or concern. Because they “know what they are doing”, right?
- znpy 5y ago
  Lol not everyone is a developer. This offering makes perfect sense to replace those dumb dell machines equipped with 4gb ram and a core i3 with even dumber machine and slash the local it team. Think of thin clients, all over again. Think of call centers. Think of receptionists, or bank clerks that all they do is use internal web-based software, and print a pdf file. No more hardware maintenance, just throw away the whole thing (the dumb terminal) and replace it with a new one, we'll send it in for repair later.
  - AlphaSite 5y ago
    You still need something to run the thing client, thin client doesn’t mean no client. So where does it run?
    - twobitshifter 5y ago
      I’ve seen organizations that just run Intel nucs.
    - znpy 5y ago
      Anything really, even a raspberry pi could do. Heck, you could even netboot the raspberry pi and save on SD cards too.
JTbane 5y ago
I absolutely hate using VMs over VPNs, any slight interruption in my fragile home Wi-Fi (or whatever the hell the VPN is doing) causes my whole dev environment to freeze. It's a security/usability trade off for me.
- antaviana 5y ago
  I had Ethernet installed in all rooms at home. For some 800 euros (5 Ethernet outlets including the router) you get sub millisecond latencies to your router and your computer works wonders again. Installing an Ethernet LAN network is the best investment for anyone who works from home. Wi-fi really sucks in urban areas and soon even in rural areas because of the IoT crap.
  - bserge 5y ago
    You get Ethernet for Gigabit speed, not latency. 5x 30 Euro routers in Wireless Bridge mode would've delivered the same latency. And I could've done the wiring for 2/3 of the price, btw.
    - znpy 5y ago
      Ethernet will almost never have noisy neighbors problems though. Also, if GP had laid cat-6 cables maybe they might upgrade switch and clients to 10gbit/sec Ethernet.
    - maccard 5y ago
      How do you know you could have done it for 2/3 of the price? All my internal walls are solid brick, so running a cable from one end to the other would involve drilling through at least one, but likely 3 brick walls, and either channeling through the wall or pulling up the hardwood floors above them. No way are you going to install 5 points for €500 in a job like that. Also Ethernet is definitely useful for latency. Having sub 1ms latency on a wifi network is very very difficult, and definitely not going to happen with 5 routers.
    - jclulow 5y ago
      That's not really true in noisy areas. The available radio spectrum is limited, and as more users inhabit an area you are basically time-sharing. The less time you have to send packets, the more latency some of those packets will experience. Empirically, wifi latency can be _extremely_ poor in busy areas.
formerly_proven 5y ago
Okay, now I'm just laughing out loud. My org has an internal/external reputation for not exactly being fast moving and having convoluted IT processes, yet we can onboard people within a few days. If it takes you 2-3 weeks to onboard ANYONE please realize that your IT processes are complete, unmitigated garbage. Paying Microsoft for some Windows VMs through the nose isn't going to change anything about that.
- ssully 5y ago
  I assure you, they know their IT processes are garbage.
- dboreham 5y ago
  Perhaps if there's a significant chance of never seeing the expensive laptop again?
- raesene9 5y ago
  This it true but I've seen orgs in the past where a business unit would happily pay quite a lot of money to avoid going anywhere near central IT. I think the most extreme example of slow process I saw was an organization where central IT wanted to charge $20k and take two months to quote for a project. In that kind of environment things like this with opex pricing that can be assigned to a project's budget and fast spin up are a much better option :)
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    At my current company, my department would be able to find more experienced contractors for well below what another department here rents them out for. So I can see internal pricing being an issue as well. Internal IT charges for quotes. MSFT just quotes. This happened at a prior company as well. IBM was routinely hired over our internal team as they were cheaper.
  - temp8964 5y ago
    Don't you have security policies to make you must go through IT?
skeeter2020 5y ago
Beyond the ease it also converts all of your technology capital expenses (typically with 3 year depreciation schedules) to operating expenses that can be deducted immediately.
indigodaddy 5y ago
Exactly correct. So I guess this is just Microsoft’s big splash into VDI?
josefx 5y ago
> A lot of time is spent provisioning machines, white listing ips, setting up VPNs That sounds as if the person dealing with it would be completely incapable of replacing a failing dev. system in a timely manner. Keep a few replacement systems ready and your IT has all the time in the world to deal with those issues without blocking anything important. I can just imagine the people responsible for that mess dealing with cloud services: I am sorry but we used up all the cloud licenses management signed of on, we will push for more licenses on the next quarterly budget meeting until then have these leftover sheets of paper and this dried out pen from our office supplies.
CountDrewku 5y ago
That doesn't hold up. Unless your org is completely inept at device setup they should be able to do the same with a physical PC as well. You don't gain much from provisioning a completely virtual device.

mongol 5y ago

Yes the answer must be something like this. You can implement BYOD throughout the organization.

betaby 5y ago

I still didn't get how bare Windows VM can speed up a new developer on-boarding. In all my jobs slowest part was always familiarization with a new build/deploy environment. OS/Laptop setup was always trivial and took 1-2 day max, even in orgs with 20k employees.

ehutch79 5y ago
"No one told us about a new hire... when do they start... what do you mean a week ago?" is a big delay in new employee onboarding
- edoceo 5y ago
  That seems really far along the process to recognize the mistakes.
  - ehutch79 5y ago
    You'd think that?
- ed_elliott_asc 5y ago
  “We don’t give admin right to install software” (except they do, you just need to ask the right person - there is always someone who will)
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    If you don't have admin on your workstation, that's a huge red flag.
    - ehutch79 5y ago
      Only if you're a dev or something, general office workers don't need admin access. Though I'll add pretty much anything legit to our self service installs.
    - tatersolid 5y ago
      Nearly every compromised or bricked workstation I’ve seen in the last 20 years was a developer’s (or QA) machine with local root/admin. Standard users don’t get local root/admin in a corporate environment since the Win2k days, and seem to have few issues in comparison. Many devs seem perfectly willing to pull any random executable off the internet and run it without inspection or concern. Because they “know what they are doing”, right?
znpy 5y ago
Lol not everyone is a developer. This offering makes perfect sense to replace those dumb dell machines equipped with 4gb ram and a core i3 with even dumber machine and slash the local it team. Think of thin clients, all over again. Think of call centers. Think of receptionists, or bank clerks that all they do is use internal web-based software, and print a pdf file. No more hardware maintenance, just throw away the whole thing (the dumb terminal) and replace it with a new one, we'll send it in for repair later.
- AlphaSite 5y ago
  You still need something to run the thing client, thin client doesn’t mean no client. So where does it run?
  - twobitshifter 5y ago
    I’ve seen organizations that just run Intel nucs.
  - znpy 5y ago
    Anything really, even a raspberry pi could do. Heck, you could even netboot the raspberry pi and save on SD cards too.

JTbane 5y ago

I absolutely hate using VMs over VPNs, any slight interruption in my fragile home Wi-Fi (or whatever the hell the VPN is doing) causes my whole dev environment to freeze. It's a security/usability trade off for me.

antaviana 5y ago
I had Ethernet installed in all rooms at home. For some 800 euros (5 Ethernet outlets including the router) you get sub millisecond latencies to your router and your computer works wonders again. Installing an Ethernet LAN network is the best investment for anyone who works from home. Wi-fi really sucks in urban areas and soon even in rural areas because of the IoT crap.
- bserge 5y ago
  You get Ethernet for Gigabit speed, not latency. 5x 30 Euro routers in Wireless Bridge mode would've delivered the same latency. And I could've done the wiring for 2/3 of the price, btw.
  - znpy 5y ago
    Ethernet will almost never have noisy neighbors problems though. Also, if GP had laid cat-6 cables maybe they might upgrade switch and clients to 10gbit/sec Ethernet.
  - maccard 5y ago
    How do you know you could have done it for 2/3 of the price? All my internal walls are solid brick, so running a cable from one end to the other would involve drilling through at least one, but likely 3 brick walls, and either channeling through the wall or pulling up the hardwood floors above them. No way are you going to install 5 points for €500 in a job like that. Also Ethernet is definitely useful for latency. Having sub 1ms latency on a wifi network is very very difficult, and definitely not going to happen with 5 routers.
  - jclulow 5y ago
    That's not really true in noisy areas. The available radio spectrum is limited, and as more users inhabit an area you are basically time-sharing. The less time you have to send packets, the more latency some of those packets will experience. Empirically, wifi latency can be _extremely_ poor in busy areas.

formerly_proven 5y ago

Okay, now I'm just laughing out loud. My org has an internal/external reputation for not exactly being fast moving and having convoluted IT processes, yet we can onboard people within a few days. If it takes you 2-3 weeks to onboard ANYONE please realize that your IT processes are complete, unmitigated garbage. Paying Microsoft for some Windows VMs through the nose isn't going to change anything about that.

ssully 5y ago
I assure you, they know their IT processes are garbage.
dboreham 5y ago
Perhaps if there's a significant chance of never seeing the expensive laptop again?
raesene9 5y ago
This it true but I've seen orgs in the past where a business unit would happily pay quite a lot of money to avoid going anywhere near central IT. I think the most extreme example of slow process I saw was an organization where central IT wanted to charge $20k and take two months to quote for a project. In that kind of environment things like this with opex pricing that can be assigned to a project's budget and fast spin up are a much better option :)
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  At my current company, my department would be able to find more experienced contractors for well below what another department here rents them out for. So I can see internal pricing being an issue as well. Internal IT charges for quotes. MSFT just quotes. This happened at a prior company as well. IBM was routinely hired over our internal team as they were cheaper.
- temp8964 5y ago
  Don't you have security policies to make you must go through IT?

skeeter2020 5y ago

Beyond the ease it also converts all of your technology capital expenses (typically with 3 year depreciation schedules) to operating expenses that can be deducted immediately.

indigodaddy 5y ago

Exactly correct. So I guess this is just Microsoft’s big splash into VDI?

josefx 5y ago

> A lot of time is spent provisioning machines, white listing ips, setting up VPNs That sounds as if the person dealing with it would be completely incapable of replacing a failing dev. system in a timely manner. Keep a few replacement systems ready and your IT has all the time in the world to deal with those issues without blocking anything important. I can just imagine the people responsible for that mess dealing with cloud services: I am sorry but we used up all the cloud licenses management signed of on, we will push for more licenses on the next quarterly budget meeting until then have these leftover sheets of paper and this dried out pen from our office supplies.

CountDrewku 5y ago

That doesn't hold up. Unless your org is completely inept at device setup they should be able to do the same with a physical PC as well. You don't gain much from provisioning a completely virtual device.