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V and it's creator get a lot of flack here on HN and the criticisms are probably warranted. However, I personally enjoy seeing them out here hustling and really

V and it's creator get a lot of flack here on HN and the criticisms are probably warranted. However, I personally enjoy seeing them out here hustling and really trying to make their language succeed despite all the shortcomings. As someone who skews more apathetic, I enjoy seeing people driven by so much passion. Now, it's time for me to be one of those critics! It's easy to promote the speed and size of your github alternative when it has a fraction of the features. I'll be curious to see where this goes and I think it has some value but only as a way to dogfood V itself.

rvz 5y ago
> It's easy to promote the speed and size of your github alternative when it has a fraction of the features. I could have said that about Gogs years ago since a high school student made that in their spare time. Once projects become open-source, the community usually takes over that work. Just like many others, the same could happen to this project, just like how interested contributors did so with the V language as soon as that was open-sourced.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
junon 5y ago
Can you perhaps link to some of said criticism? I'd be interested to read it.
- kangalioo 5y ago
  Here is a nice mini series of blog posts about V https://christine.website/blog/series/v https://christine.website/blog/series/v
  - pwdisswordfish8 5y ago
    Don’t forget this one: https://christine.website/blog/OVE-20190623-0001 https://christine.website/blog/OVE-20190623-0001 I wouldn’t even for a second using web-facing services from someone with a security track record this bad.
  - rozab 5y ago
    The best bit is this excerpt from the standard library (2019): fn download_file(url, out string) { // println('\nDOWNLOAD FILE $out url=$url') // -L follow redirects // println('curl -L -o "$out" "$url"') os.system2('curl -s -L -o "$out" "$url"') // res := os.system('curl -s -L -o "$out" "$url"') // println(res) } Here's what that file looks like today: https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/vlib/net/http/download_nix.c.v https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/vlib/net/http/downloa...
    - amedvednikov 5y ago
      No, this file is no longer used. We have a fully working net module: https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/vlib/net/http https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/vlib/net/http
      - pwdisswordfish8 5y ago
        In that case, you ought to be mocked for making a mess of the repository by keeping unused files in it.
        chousuke 5y ago
        Come on, that's just mean. I don't really understand the negativity against V; is there something wrong with setting crazy goals if you're actually working towards them?
        junon 5y ago
        Why should anyone be mocked for anything? How is that conducive to the conversation? You should rethink how you convey your ideas, IMO.
    - SahAssar 5y ago
      I don't get it, is that file's function bodies just comments now? Or does /* */ not mean a comment in V?
    - Spivak 5y ago
  - junon 5y ago
    Meh. I have some issues with the criticisms there, but they make some okay points too. I don't see this as a reason to dismiss the entire language though. I've seen more damning arguments against Go, Rust, Zig, etc.
    - vlang1dot0 5y ago
      The languages you've listed generally work as advertised and while you might dislike some of the design decisions or tradeoffs inherent in those decisions, ultimately, they do what they claim to. The same cannot be said of V.
      - junon 5y ago
        You say that and then do nothing to back it up.
- tleb_ 5y ago
  Some can be found in every thread about the project: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=V%20lang&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- pityJuke 5y ago
  This HN User has been quite outspoken on his criticism: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=vlang1dot0 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=vlang1dot0
penagwin 5y ago
> V and it's creator get a lot of flack here on HN and the criticisms are probably warranted. Hi fellow Penguin :D! I'm impressed by the creator's dedication here too, but he's clearly biting off more then he can chew - he's been saying that he's making a * Web framework * GUI framework * SQL ORM * A language that has a lot of promises - seriously checkout their list. * Github alternative * VIM alternative This stuff is awesome as a project, but each one of these have teams of dedicated engineers sponsored by many companies to hammer out issues and make them as robust as possible. And while he certainly has working demo's of each, they're demos. There's a huge difference between a POC and a robust framework. A half baked framework is useless sadly, I think he's spreading himself too thin while have a roadmap that looks like a programmer's christmas list.
- hobo_mark 5y ago
  Also * package manager * operating system
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- amedvednikov 5y ago
  I'm not working on these alone :)
  - 13415 5y ago
    While your here, thank you for the awesome work on the V language! It pretty much has the (for me, subjectively) ideal features of a small, fast, and static programming language. I've been following it for a while and I'm pretty sure I'll find a good use for it soon!
    - amedvednikov 5y ago
      Thanks! Glad you like it :)
  - ybbond 5y ago
    I knew vlang from Volt, been waiting for 3+ years. I agree with some of the parent comment. But I hold no grudge for you, keep up the spirit and good work. I hope the project went well
agumonkey 5y ago
i was annoyed by the hyperbolic ambitious claims but if the guy and his friends pour out solid code then there's nothing else to say :) also they seem to aim at frugal fat free programming, i cannot not like that
- crazy_horse 5y ago
  Those that lie often either don't respect other people or they don't have the ability to know when they are lying. Which is scarier? Go, Nim, and Zig have similar focuses and their devs have put in years of public, good work. Some of the take downs at the time he was making his initial claims are absolutely brutal and make it clear that he not only couldn't back up his crazy claims, he wasn't getting the small stuff right. https://christine.website/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 https://christine.website/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 He still hasn't learned.
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    I read that article, maybe .. maybe they wised up during the last 2 years.
    - crazy_horse 5y ago
      It's a very large amount for the most talented person to learn, much less build multiple production-grade systems with. We all should get some grace ofc, but does he also not need to show that he's learned not to make exaggerated claims? Otherwise there is no accountability and someone else gets fucked because they run across a bug because the dev didn't know use valgrind while claiming no memory leaks. I can't like that. How many people would love to get their service on HN for a few hours?
  - amedvednikov 5y ago
    Hardly an unbiased article: > V can be bootstrapped in under a second by compiling its code translated to C with a simple cc v.c No libraries or dependencies needed. Git is a dependency, which means perl is a dependency, which means a shell is a dependency, which means glibc is a dependency, which means that a lot of other things (including posix threads) are also dependencies. Pedantically, you could even go as far as saying that you could count the Linux kernel, the processor being used and the like as dependencies, but that's a bit out of scope for this. ============== Ridiculous and unnecessary nitpicking. Also benchmarking the language with a debug build, using a slower backend, and while running vfmt. Here's a better benchmark: V compiling itself in 0.3 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvP6wmcl_Sc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvP6wmcl_Sc
GoblinSlayer 5y ago
>It's easy to promote the speed and size of your github alternative when it has a fraction of the features. At leat this fraction of features works, what can't be said about gitlab and is only partially true for github. It shows repos, files, commits and what not, what features are missing?

rvz 5y ago

> It's easy to promote the speed and size of your github alternative when it has a fraction of the features. I could have said that about Gogs years ago since a high school student made that in their spare time. Once projects become open-source, the community usually takes over that work. Just like many others, the same could happen to this project, just like how interested contributors did so with the V language as soon as that was open-sourced.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

junon 5y ago

Can you perhaps link to some of said criticism? I'd be interested to read it.

kangalioo 5y ago
Here is a nice mini series of blog posts about V https://christine.website/blog/series/v https://christine.website/blog/series/v
- pwdisswordfish8 5y ago
  Don’t forget this one: https://christine.website/blog/OVE-20190623-0001 https://christine.website/blog/OVE-20190623-0001 I wouldn’t even for a second using web-facing services from someone with a security track record this bad.
- rozab 5y ago
  The best bit is this excerpt from the standard library (2019): fn download_file(url, out string) { // println('\nDOWNLOAD FILE $out url=$url') // -L follow redirects // println('curl -L -o "$out" "$url"') os.system2('curl -s -L -o "$out" "$url"') // res := os.system('curl -s -L -o "$out" "$url"') // println(res) } Here's what that file looks like today: https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/vlib/net/http/download_nix.c.v https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/vlib/net/http/downloa...
  - amedvednikov 5y ago
    No, this file is no longer used. We have a fully working net module: https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/vlib/net/http https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/vlib/net/http
    - pwdisswordfish8 5y ago
      In that case, you ought to be mocked for making a mess of the repository by keeping unused files in it.
      - chousuke 5y ago
        Come on, that's just mean. I don't really understand the negativity against V; is there something wrong with setting crazy goals if you're actually working towards them?
      - junon 5y ago
        Why should anyone be mocked for anything? How is that conducive to the conversation? You should rethink how you convey your ideas, IMO.
  - SahAssar 5y ago
    I don't get it, is that file's function bodies just comments now? Or does /* */ not mean a comment in V?
  - Spivak 5y ago
- junon 5y ago
  Meh. I have some issues with the criticisms there, but they make some okay points too. I don't see this as a reason to dismiss the entire language though. I've seen more damning arguments against Go, Rust, Zig, etc.
  - vlang1dot0 5y ago
    The languages you've listed generally work as advertised and while you might dislike some of the design decisions or tradeoffs inherent in those decisions, ultimately, they do what they claim to. The same cannot be said of V.
    - junon 5y ago
      You say that and then do nothing to back it up.
tleb_ 5y ago
Some can be found in every thread about the project: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=V%20lang&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
pityJuke 5y ago
This HN User has been quite outspoken on his criticism: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=vlang1dot0 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=vlang1dot0

penagwin 5y ago

> V and it's creator get a lot of flack here on HN and the criticisms are probably warranted. Hi fellow Penguin :D! I'm impressed by the creator's dedication here too, but he's clearly biting off more then he can chew - he's been saying that he's making a * Web framework * GUI framework * SQL ORM * A language that has a lot of promises - seriously checkout their list. * Github alternative * VIM alternative This stuff is awesome as a project, but each one of these have teams of dedicated engineers sponsored by many companies to hammer out issues and make them as robust as possible. And while he certainly has working demo's of each, they're demos. There's a huge difference between a POC and a robust framework. A half baked framework is useless sadly, I think he's spreading himself too thin while have a roadmap that looks like a programmer's christmas list.

hobo_mark 5y ago
Also * package manager * operating system
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
amedvednikov 5y ago
I'm not working on these alone :)
- 13415 5y ago
  While your here, thank you for the awesome work on the V language! It pretty much has the (for me, subjectively) ideal features of a small, fast, and static programming language. I've been following it for a while and I'm pretty sure I'll find a good use for it soon!
  - amedvednikov 5y ago
    Thanks! Glad you like it :)
- ybbond 5y ago
  I knew vlang from Volt, been waiting for 3+ years. I agree with some of the parent comment. But I hold no grudge for you, keep up the spirit and good work. I hope the project went well

agumonkey 5y ago

i was annoyed by the hyperbolic ambitious claims but if the guy and his friends pour out solid code then there's nothing else to say :) also they seem to aim at frugal fat free programming, i cannot not like that

crazy_horse 5y ago
Those that lie often either don't respect other people or they don't have the ability to know when they are lying. Which is scarier? Go, Nim, and Zig have similar focuses and their devs have put in years of public, good work. Some of the take downs at the time he was making his initial claims are absolutely brutal and make it clear that he not only couldn't back up his crazy claims, he wasn't getting the small stuff right. https://christine.website/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 https://christine.website/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 He still hasn't learned.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  I read that article, maybe .. maybe they wised up during the last 2 years.
  - crazy_horse 5y ago
    It's a very large amount for the most talented person to learn, much less build multiple production-grade systems with. We all should get some grace ofc, but does he also not need to show that he's learned not to make exaggerated claims? Otherwise there is no accountability and someone else gets fucked because they run across a bug because the dev didn't know use valgrind while claiming no memory leaks. I can't like that. How many people would love to get their service on HN for a few hours?
- amedvednikov 5y ago
  Hardly an unbiased article: > V can be bootstrapped in under a second by compiling its code translated to C with a simple cc v.c No libraries or dependencies needed. Git is a dependency, which means perl is a dependency, which means a shell is a dependency, which means glibc is a dependency, which means that a lot of other things (including posix threads) are also dependencies. Pedantically, you could even go as far as saying that you could count the Linux kernel, the processor being used and the like as dependencies, but that's a bit out of scope for this. ============== Ridiculous and unnecessary nitpicking. Also benchmarking the language with a debug build, using a slower backend, and while running vfmt. Here's a better benchmark: V compiling itself in 0.3 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvP6wmcl_Sc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvP6wmcl_Sc

GoblinSlayer 5y ago

>It's easy to promote the speed and size of your github alternative when it has a fraction of the features. At leat this fraction of features works, what can't be said about gitlab and is only partially true for github. It shows repos, files, commits and what not, what features are missing?