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Do people in countries with universal healthcare not have this problem? What are the types of products and services that are so significant? Surely we aren’t t

Do people in countries with universal healthcare not have this problem? What are the types of products and services that are so significant? Surely we aren’t talking about things like Netflix and utilities?

MattGaiser 5y ago
Depends on what is covered under universal health care. In Canada, doctors and hospitals are covered. But if you need a lot of drugs, you might need to keep working. You also need to budget for dental and vision, as those are also tied to employment agreements.
- SamuelAdams 5y ago
  I'm curious about Canada. My plan is to make a lot of money in the states and retire early, then apply for Canadian citizenship and move to Canada to cover health expenses. Even if the citizenship process takes 2-4 years, would this be worth it?
  - cgh 5y ago
    Canada’s immigration process is based on a points system. If you are not working, don’t speak French or are over a certain age, then I wouldn’t rate your chances too highly. The reason is the “move to Canada to cover health expenses” part. If you have never paid into the system via taxes by working and living here, then why would we want you?
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    The older you get and not working make it a lot harder, as many people have your plan. So if you want to do that, come to Canada before you retire and having a job here will help you get in.
  - kilroy123 5y ago
    That won't be easy unless you marry a Canadian citizen. That's what my cousin did and now he's a citizen after all these years.
  - dharmab 5y ago
    Immigration to Canada is notoriously difficult without family ties: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...
- jleyank 5y ago
  In Ontario, there is a provincial drug plan for 65+. I think Quebec has something similar. Ontario tried to extend it to all but the government change a few years back killed that.
toomuchtodo 5y ago
It's a lesser problem, but there are also less opportunities to accumulate wealth rapidly. Lots of folks I know get FatFIRE (>=$5MM assets, $200k/year in income at 4% SWR) in the US and then retire to Portugal [1] (which has universal healthcare, and gets you access to the EU). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_Golden_Visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_Golden_Visa
- germinalphrase 5y ago
  Are these people you know Americans? I admire the spirit of such a move, but losing immediate contact with friends/family would make it challenging (for me).
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Yes. Most end up either in Lisbon or Porto.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  That's a crazy good deal. As long as the 500k doesn't get completely wiped out someone with a family likely comes out ahead on health-care costs alone (though I understand the tax implications of US citizens abroad are complicated).
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    There is an investment version where the cost is only 250000 EUR, but there's more due diligence and paperwork required. You're essentially buying citizenship for the opportunity cost of those funds not making returns in more aggressive investment vehicles for several years.
- spacedcowboy 5y ago
  I'm a Brit, been living in the US for a decade or so now. I came here for the money and the weather, but the weather is going to shit these days... The long term plan was always to make sufficient money to retire early, then go home. Complicating this easy straightforward idea was that I got married (!) and now have a kid who I don't want to uproot. So now I wait for college-days, and then sod off back to the UK :) The cost of my (paid off) house in the Bay Area will fund a small mansion by the sea in the UK. Long walks on the beach with the dog seem appropriate, and will even be good for my old age :)
paulpauper 5y ago
From what I have calculated, the savings from universal care vs insurance are negated by higher taxes
- jleyank 5y ago
  While I have not made SV salaries, I’ve done ok. Overall, the total-deduction I see in Ontario is comparable to the US. Higher, I imagine, than Texas but lower than California - us social security is way more costly than Canadian cpp (yielding more benefits too). And I moved here over 10 years ago and thus have paid my taxes…. It’s permitted us retiring before hitting Medicare age.
saiya-jin 5y ago
Nope. Proper healthcare costs are truly an afterthought in most if not all parts of Europe, same as public transport tickets or cafeteria budgeting. Of course this doesn't cover non-medical stuff but under normal situation one doesn't need much of that apart from good suncream (which is required anytime anyway). I firmly believe that the problems of cashflow during retirement, outside medical costs discussed here which are very US-specific, are much more about lifestyle choices. If one desperately needs that luxury they bathed in in last 30 years and it became the base standard life, then there is tough time ahead with possibly sad outlook. We all know more humble life leads to more happy life long term at this point, so to each their own. Why I believe this - the most awesome memories from my life is doing stuff that costs very little - long backpacking trips around the world where plane tickets there & back are maybe 50% of the cost of 1-month long adventure. Doing many awesome sports one can do in the mountains (hiking, climbing, via ferratas, ski touring, paragliding, etc.). All these need initial gear investment and then just gas costs + rare equipment replacement costs. These activities also highly increase chances that one reaches retirement actually in good shape, and can relatively kick ass till 75-80. I expect to be highly active during 60-70 retirement, based on genetics in my family. And a bit of luck obviously, one needs that for everything. While doing these activities, I've met tons of people who are properly age-retired. During work week (maybe outside of July&August tourist seasons), you will find that most hikers in the Alps are retirees for example.

MattGaiser 5y ago

Depends on what is covered under universal health care. In Canada, doctors and hospitals are covered. But if you need a lot of drugs, you might need to keep working. You also need to budget for dental and vision, as those are also tied to employment agreements.

SamuelAdams 5y ago
I'm curious about Canada. My plan is to make a lot of money in the states and retire early, then apply for Canadian citizenship and move to Canada to cover health expenses. Even if the citizenship process takes 2-4 years, would this be worth it?
- cgh 5y ago
  Canada’s immigration process is based on a points system. If you are not working, don’t speak French or are over a certain age, then I wouldn’t rate your chances too highly. The reason is the “move to Canada to cover health expenses” part. If you have never paid into the system via taxes by working and living here, then why would we want you?
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  The older you get and not working make it a lot harder, as many people have your plan. So if you want to do that, come to Canada before you retire and having a job here will help you get in.
- kilroy123 5y ago
  That won't be easy unless you marry a Canadian citizen. That's what my cousin did and now he's a citizen after all these years.
- dharmab 5y ago
  Immigration to Canada is notoriously difficult without family ties: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...
jleyank 5y ago
In Ontario, there is a provincial drug plan for 65+. I think Quebec has something similar. Ontario tried to extend it to all but the government change a few years back killed that.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

It's a lesser problem, but there are also less opportunities to accumulate wealth rapidly. Lots of folks I know get FatFIRE (>=$5MM assets, $200k/year in income at 4% SWR) in the US and then retire to Portugal [1] (which has universal healthcare, and gets you access to the EU). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_Golden_Visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_Golden_Visa

germinalphrase 5y ago
Are these people you know Americans? I admire the spirit of such a move, but losing immediate contact with friends/family would make it challenging (for me).
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Yes. Most end up either in Lisbon or Porto.
aidenn0 5y ago
That's a crazy good deal. As long as the 500k doesn't get completely wiped out someone with a family likely comes out ahead on health-care costs alone (though I understand the tax implications of US citizens abroad are complicated).
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  There is an investment version where the cost is only 250000 EUR, but there's more due diligence and paperwork required. You're essentially buying citizenship for the opportunity cost of those funds not making returns in more aggressive investment vehicles for several years.
spacedcowboy 5y ago
I'm a Brit, been living in the US for a decade or so now. I came here for the money and the weather, but the weather is going to shit these days... The long term plan was always to make sufficient money to retire early, then go home. Complicating this easy straightforward idea was that I got married (!) and now have a kid who I don't want to uproot. So now I wait for college-days, and then sod off back to the UK :) The cost of my (paid off) house in the Bay Area will fund a small mansion by the sea in the UK. Long walks on the beach with the dog seem appropriate, and will even be good for my old age :)

paulpauper 5y ago

From what I have calculated, the savings from universal care vs insurance are negated by higher taxes

jleyank 5y ago
While I have not made SV salaries, I’ve done ok. Overall, the total-deduction I see in Ontario is comparable to the US. Higher, I imagine, than Texas but lower than California - us social security is way more costly than Canadian cpp (yielding more benefits too). And I moved here over 10 years ago and thus have paid my taxes…. It’s permitted us retiring before hitting Medicare age.

saiya-jin 5y ago

Nope. Proper healthcare costs are truly an afterthought in most if not all parts of Europe, same as public transport tickets or cafeteria budgeting. Of course this doesn't cover non-medical stuff but under normal situation one doesn't need much of that apart from good suncream (which is required anytime anyway). I firmly believe that the problems of cashflow during retirement, outside medical costs discussed here which are very US-specific, are much more about lifestyle choices. If one desperately needs that luxury they bathed in in last 30 years and it became the base standard life, then there is tough time ahead with possibly sad outlook. We all know more humble life leads to more happy life long term at this point, so to each their own. Why I believe this - the most awesome memories from my life is doing stuff that costs very little - long backpacking trips around the world where plane tickets there & back are maybe 50% of the cost of 1-month long adventure. Doing many awesome sports one can do in the mountains (hiking, climbing, via ferratas, ski touring, paragliding, etc.). All these need initial gear investment and then just gas costs + rare equipment replacement costs. These activities also highly increase chances that one reaches retirement actually in good shape, and can relatively kick ass till 75-80. I expect to be highly active during 60-70 retirement, based on genetics in my family. And a bit of luck obviously, one needs that for everything. While doing these activities, I've met tons of people who are properly age-retired. During work week (maybe outside of July&August tourist seasons), you will find that most hikers in the Alps are retirees for example.