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Would you mind participating in a thought experiment? I have a magic wand. When I wave it you will be reborn in any time of your choosing, past or present. Y

Would you mind participating in a thought experiment? I have a magic wand. When I wave it you will be reborn in any time of your choosing, past or present. You will be randomly assigned a race, gender, IQ, sexual preference, family wealth, health status, and country. What time would you choose?

sudosysgen 5y ago
I don't think this thought experiment is appropriate. On it's face you can use it to justify the status quo more or less at any time in the world. It's not a strong argument against the position that improvement is slow or stagnant. Beyond that, no one believes that material wealth is fully useless. But we know that material wealth is not useful beyond a certain baseline to one's happiness, except as a means for the exertion of power. The hedonistic treadmill is inexorable. If I could live in a world free of rent seeking and social domination with the equivalent of ~40k/year in material product each year, I would do it. Most of the reason most people work beyond that is to acquire fundamentally scarce goods such as housing ans land for which capitalism won't make the pie grow, is due to artifical demand brought forth by marketing, or simply doesn't actually benefit to individual happiness. We already have fairly conclusive research on this, once you have enough money to be insulated against catastrophy and acquire stable living conditions as well as a sufficient social status, the marginal effect of increased income on your happiness is roughly zero. Which is, by the way, not the opinion of the Soviet ideology, they were fairly committed to growth for a prolonged amount of time, though their economic system did not necessitate it to survive (geopolitically it was necessary for military reasons though)
- Consultant32452 5y ago
  Acknowledging that this is the best time to be alive in no way implies it can’t be better. You don’t get bonus points for spreading a miserable worldview.
hnbad 5y ago
The problem with this thought experiment is that the chances of having an outcome that would be less preferable to what I have right now are extremely high regardless of my answer. There'd be a chance I'd turn into Bezos, but there's a higher chance I'd turn into a poor kid in some third world country that spends their day dumping circuit boards into vats of acid without protective equipment to make a living. You're also completely sidestepping the original point. Defining all scientific and technological accomplishments as the products of capitalism because capitalism is the dominant system is begging the question. We know that scientific and technological accomplishments and improvements to the general quality of life were also made before capitalism existed. We don't know that capitalism has had a positive effect on these trends. Plus if you want to take the primitivist route you could argue that if you believe the data on climate change, the status quo is literally built on killing us over the next few decades and "benefits" like getting a thousand new smartphone models each year or being able to choose between twenty nearly identical brands of bottled water are entirely offset by the externalities that are rapidly becoming tangible problems even to the wealthier among us.
- Consultant32452 5y ago
  Whenever someone tries to spread their miserable worldview and I present them with this thought experiment they respond in one of two ways: total silence or a novel. It's telling.

sudosysgen 5y ago

I don't think this thought experiment is appropriate. On it's face you can use it to justify the status quo more or less at any time in the world. It's not a strong argument against the position that improvement is slow or stagnant. Beyond that, no one believes that material wealth is fully useless. But we know that material wealth is not useful beyond a certain baseline to one's happiness, except as a means for the exertion of power. The hedonistic treadmill is inexorable. If I could live in a world free of rent seeking and social domination with the equivalent of ~40k/year in material product each year, I would do it. Most of the reason most people work beyond that is to acquire fundamentally scarce goods such as housing ans land for which capitalism won't make the pie grow, is due to artifical demand brought forth by marketing, or simply doesn't actually benefit to individual happiness. We already have fairly conclusive research on this, once you have enough money to be insulated against catastrophy and acquire stable living conditions as well as a sufficient social status, the marginal effect of increased income on your happiness is roughly zero. Which is, by the way, not the opinion of the Soviet ideology, they were fairly committed to growth for a prolonged amount of time, though their economic system did not necessitate it to survive (geopolitically it was necessary for military reasons though)

Consultant32452 5y ago
Acknowledging that this is the best time to be alive in no way implies it can’t be better. You don’t get bonus points for spreading a miserable worldview.

hnbad 5y ago

The problem with this thought experiment is that the chances of having an outcome that would be less preferable to what I have right now are extremely high regardless of my answer. There'd be a chance I'd turn into Bezos, but there's a higher chance I'd turn into a poor kid in some third world country that spends their day dumping circuit boards into vats of acid without protective equipment to make a living. You're also completely sidestepping the original point. Defining all scientific and technological accomplishments as the products of capitalism because capitalism is the dominant system is begging the question. We know that scientific and technological accomplishments and improvements to the general quality of life were also made before capitalism existed. We don't know that capitalism has had a positive effect on these trends. Plus if you want to take the primitivist route you could argue that if you believe the data on climate change, the status quo is literally built on killing us over the next few decades and "benefits" like getting a thousand new smartphone models each year or being able to choose between twenty nearly identical brands of bottled water are entirely offset by the externalities that are rapidly becoming tangible problems even to the wealthier among us.

Consultant32452 5y ago
Whenever someone tries to spread their miserable worldview and I present them with this thought experiment they respond in one of two ways: total silence or a novel. It's telling.