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> Retirement forces you to stop thinking that it is your job that holds you back. For most people the depressing truth is that they aren't that organized, disci

by awb 5y ago

> Retirement forces you to stop thinking that it is your job that holds you back. For most people the depressing truth is that they aren't that organized, disciplined, or motivated. Maybe, but I don’t know anyone who’s less happy being retired. They might not be living their retirement fantasy, but the pressure and stress of having to work is gone.

dagw 5y ago
Maybe, but I don’t know anyone who’s less happy being retired. I've known lots of people who spiraled into various levels of depression after retirement. It's even more likely if the retirement wasn't voluntary.
- defaultname 5y ago
  Retirement is such a loaded word because to many it means "wealthy enough to do whatever they want", whereas traditionally it meant "no longer useful to employers". In the former case we have stories of 20-somethings "retiring", the word repurposed into just a meaningless boast. In the no longer useful to employers vein, in the working class town I grew up in there was a common observation that retirement was a harbinger of death. That when someone retired their lifestyle would quickly decline to sedentary decay, boredom medicated with alcohol (or other things). Death would quickly follow. As an aside, tangentially there's a wonderful passage from Mark Twain in Tom Sawyer - “Work consists of whatever a body is obliged to do. Play consists of whatever a body is not obliged to do.”
  - Domenic_S 5y ago
    The article discusses this. In part: > Americans cannot imagine stopping work before they've either (1) purchased everything that they could conceivably want, or (2) collapsed from physical exhaustion. If your material needs and desires are sufficiently low, and your resources sufficiently high, you could retire. Age or usefulness to an employer could be an upper bound, I suppose. I look at it like this: finances are like a bathtub. What you spend is the drain, your income (whether salary, interest, cap gains, etc) is the faucet, and your resources are the water in the tub. Retirement is the point where you can turn off (or turn down) the faucet and not run dry. Some people have big drainpipes and need a big tub and lots of water; others can live with a trickle.
  - nly 5y ago
    I prefer the term "financially independent". Just knowing you can walk away at any time without ending up homeless or in poverty.
MattGaiser 5y ago
Both my grandfathers have repeatedly tried to retire and within 3 weeks went back to work until in the case of one his boss changed and in the case of the other, at 77 he is still working. For many their work is very core to their identity and without it, they have little to do.
- dagw 5y ago
  I think easing out of work is important. My dad 'retired' at 67 and instantly got hired back as a consultant on an hourly basis. He then spent the next 3 or so years slowly cutting down his hours until he was only working ~20-30% at which point he felt ready quit.
  - mathattack 5y ago
    Similar. My old man went back to his old job as a consultant. It was supposed to be 20 hours a week and quickly turned into 40. Then he gradually reduced over time.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      Probably my ideal thing would be some project-based (non-dev) consulting that wasn't too many hours and that let me disappear for a month here and there. I'm not sure I could really count on that though--especially without a lot of beating of bushes--which leads me to put in a bit more time while I easily can.
      - mathattack 5y ago
        There’s a market for snowbirds who work half the year. You just have to be Visibly Very Good at something.
  - renerthr 5y ago
    Newbie here. What is a consultant? What are the education or job experience reqs to be able to properly call yourself a consultant?
coldcode 5y ago
I retired at age 62.5, tired of working long hours and high stress as a lead programmer in a huge company. Now I write code all day I want to write. Much more fun. I miss being involved in the (non FAANG) companies business, but I don't miss the hours, stress, frustration or exec indecision at all.
mankyd 5y ago
There is plenty of research to suggest that people go into cognitive decline after entering retirement. Whether that translated to a change in "happiness" is perhaps a different metric, but it certainly is suggestive. https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2020/03/cognitive-decline-retirement https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2020/03/cognitive-de... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/10/191029131506.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/10/191029131506.h... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6153553/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6153553/
Domenic_S 5y ago
I tend to believe the statement -- I don't know about the "happiness" aspect per se but regarding doing all those things you told yourself you'd do, yeah for sure. During COVID lockdown I saw hundreds of instances of a meme something along the lines of: "I used to think I just didn't have the time for all the things I wanted to accomplish; lockdown proved that isn't true!" Not exactly scientific, but I can relate to that.
- awb 5y ago
  I read some interesting advice somewhere that said: "Sit still until you're compelled to move." I think the idea is that a lot of our wants / desires are urges that come and go, but our dreams and needs are deeper than that and we have to let those urges pass before we can find out what our true desires are.
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    I've tried that. Things that compel me to move: Food, water, bathroom, pain. Perhaps I lack dreams.
    - awb 5y ago
      I think they’d say, “Keep sitting”
      - aidenn0 5y ago
        It's been a while since I had the luxury of sitting, but when I did, I confirmed that "days" was insufficiently long.
- anyfoo 5y ago
  And I cannot relate. This is not to say that I don't believe you, just to say that the opposite experience does exist. Some of my hobbies are pretty involved and basically require studying (signal processing etc.), and during the COVID lockdown I was able to spend much, much more time on not just those, but everything else as well. I think I will be fine once I retire sometime.

by awb 5y ago

dagw 5y ago

Maybe, but I don’t know anyone who’s less happy being retired. I've known lots of people who spiraled into various levels of depression after retirement. It's even more likely if the retirement wasn't voluntary.

defaultname 5y ago
Retirement is such a loaded word because to many it means "wealthy enough to do whatever they want", whereas traditionally it meant "no longer useful to employers". In the former case we have stories of 20-somethings "retiring", the word repurposed into just a meaningless boast. In the no longer useful to employers vein, in the working class town I grew up in there was a common observation that retirement was a harbinger of death. That when someone retired their lifestyle would quickly decline to sedentary decay, boredom medicated with alcohol (or other things). Death would quickly follow. As an aside, tangentially there's a wonderful passage from Mark Twain in Tom Sawyer - “Work consists of whatever a body is obliged to do. Play consists of whatever a body is not obliged to do.”
- Domenic_S 5y ago
  The article discusses this. In part: > Americans cannot imagine stopping work before they've either (1) purchased everything that they could conceivably want, or (2) collapsed from physical exhaustion. If your material needs and desires are sufficiently low, and your resources sufficiently high, you could retire. Age or usefulness to an employer could be an upper bound, I suppose. I look at it like this: finances are like a bathtub. What you spend is the drain, your income (whether salary, interest, cap gains, etc) is the faucet, and your resources are the water in the tub. Retirement is the point where you can turn off (or turn down) the faucet and not run dry. Some people have big drainpipes and need a big tub and lots of water; others can live with a trickle.
- nly 5y ago
  I prefer the term "financially independent". Just knowing you can walk away at any time without ending up homeless or in poverty.

MattGaiser 5y ago

Both my grandfathers have repeatedly tried to retire and within 3 weeks went back to work until in the case of one his boss changed and in the case of the other, at 77 he is still working. For many their work is very core to their identity and without it, they have little to do.

dagw 5y ago
I think easing out of work is important. My dad 'retired' at 67 and instantly got hired back as a consultant on an hourly basis. He then spent the next 3 or so years slowly cutting down his hours until he was only working ~20-30% at which point he felt ready quit.
- mathattack 5y ago
  Similar. My old man went back to his old job as a consultant. It was supposed to be 20 hours a week and quickly turned into 40. Then he gradually reduced over time.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    Probably my ideal thing would be some project-based (non-dev) consulting that wasn't too many hours and that let me disappear for a month here and there. I'm not sure I could really count on that though--especially without a lot of beating of bushes--which leads me to put in a bit more time while I easily can.
    - mathattack 5y ago
      There’s a market for snowbirds who work half the year. You just have to be Visibly Very Good at something.
- renerthr 5y ago
  Newbie here. What is a consultant? What are the education or job experience reqs to be able to properly call yourself a consultant?

coldcode 5y ago

I retired at age 62.5, tired of working long hours and high stress as a lead programmer in a huge company. Now I write code all day I want to write. Much more fun. I miss being involved in the (non FAANG) companies business, but I don't miss the hours, stress, frustration or exec indecision at all.

mankyd 5y ago

There is plenty of research to suggest that people go into cognitive decline after entering retirement. Whether that translated to a change in "happiness" is perhaps a different metric, but it certainly is suggestive. https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2020/03/cognitive-decline-retirement https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2020/03/cognitive-de... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/10/191029131506.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/10/191029131506.h... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6153553/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6153553/

Domenic_S 5y ago

I tend to believe the statement -- I don't know about the "happiness" aspect per se but regarding doing all those things you told yourself you'd do, yeah for sure. During COVID lockdown I saw hundreds of instances of a meme something along the lines of: "I used to think I just didn't have the time for all the things I wanted to accomplish; lockdown proved that isn't true!" Not exactly scientific, but I can relate to that.

awb 5y ago
I read some interesting advice somewhere that said: "Sit still until you're compelled to move." I think the idea is that a lot of our wants / desires are urges that come and go, but our dreams and needs are deeper than that and we have to let those urges pass before we can find out what our true desires are.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  I've tried that. Things that compel me to move: Food, water, bathroom, pain. Perhaps I lack dreams.
  - awb 5y ago
    I think they’d say, “Keep sitting”
    - aidenn0 5y ago
      It's been a while since I had the luxury of sitting, but when I did, I confirmed that "days" was insufficiently long.
anyfoo 5y ago
And I cannot relate. This is not to say that I don't believe you, just to say that the opposite experience does exist. Some of my hobbies are pretty involved and basically require studying (signal processing etc.), and during the COVID lockdown I was able to spend much, much more time on not just those, but everything else as well. I think I will be fine once I retire sometime.