4 ms·

I remember when similar techniques were employed by the Soviets (posters of woman in the army, posters of woman making weapons, etc.) We now consider that to be

I remember when similar techniques were employed by the Soviets (posters of woman in the army, posters of woman making weapons, etc.) We now consider that to be propaganda. I am a profesional in the science industry and the profession is so debased I would not recommend my children to get into the field. We all talk about burnout and loss of meaning. We see other eras (eg. the 50s-60s in IBM, Bell Labs, etc.) as a past golden age. This seems to be something generalized and across technical fields. Instead of focusing on figuring out what happened we have all the HR people working nonstop to try to pump more people into the field and painting it as a rosy.

madeofpalk 5y ago
Incredible that something has trivial as "a doctor doll" is seen here as controversial or propaganda. Makes me wonder what propaganda is going on in the comments.
- chestertn 5y ago
  Oh, come on. There have been Barbie doctor dolls and astronaut dolls since at least the 80s. That is besides the point. The point is the constant drilling of this topic in every form, painting the woman as oppressed superheroes and males as privileged oppressors. This with the goal of getting more people into a debased field while salaries and family-work balance keep getting worse.
  - watwut 5y ago
    > painting the woman as oppressed superheroes and males as privileged oppressors Which part of article is painting women as oppressed and which one even mentions men? And also, the amount of scientists is limited by open positions. There is literally no need for anyone to higher up supplies of those, you have dozens of PhDs for every post doc position.
  - madeofpalk 5y ago
    You seem to be projecting a lot on to the article that wasn’t actually there. I would question why you feel the need to do that.
cblconfederate 5y ago
> were employed by the Soviet the difference is that they worked
gccs 5y ago
>We now consider that to be propaganda. We always considered it propaganda. Just like modern day advertising and marketing. Its all propaganda. They are trying to convince you to believe something (that is likely not true. ie: we have the best product)
- darksfall 5y ago
  I took a 'Proper Gander' at it and without praising Mattel I couldn't overly condemn them for it either.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  The problem is when nobody recognizes it as propaganda anymore, like this article.
  - watwut 5y ago
    The article is primary about two Australian women who served as models for those toys.
watwut 5y ago
What properties the doll or figurine have to satisfy to not be propaganda? There are hundreds of barbie occupations: yoga teachers barbies, ballerina barbies, hairdresser barbies, chef barbie, meme maker (? lol) barbie ... do they all count as propaganda too?
- ekianjo 5y ago
  One good step would be to stop romanticizing everything it touches as being glamorous.
hncurious 5y ago
"I am a profesional in the science industry and the profession is so debased I would not recommend my children to get into the field. We all talk about burnout and loss of meaning." I'm curious to hear more about this. What's causing the debasement and loss of meaning in the field?
- chestertn 5y ago
  It is a long topic and the causes I don't understand well. We spend more time trying to obtain funding and satisfying some metrics rather than doing actual research we find meaningful or useful to society. The competition among peers in your same lab makes difficult to build healthy work relationships. We see how much of the people that become successful do it so in a way which is orthogonal to scientific values. This might be something that has been going on since "the world is world" but talking with the old timers it seems it has been exacerbated in the last decades. In addition to that all, in the universities and research labs, the HR and management departments have exploded (Have you seen the graph at [1]?) And they all seem to focus in stuff like in the article rather than taking care of the existing talent. This article might lay the issues better than I did [2] [1] https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/eyyiyheucaug4wt.png https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/ey... [2] http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/decline.txt http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/decline.txt

madeofpalk 5y ago

Incredible that something has trivial as "a doctor doll" is seen here as controversial or propaganda. Makes me wonder what propaganda is going on in the comments.

chestertn 5y ago
Oh, come on. There have been Barbie doctor dolls and astronaut dolls since at least the 80s. That is besides the point. The point is the constant drilling of this topic in every form, painting the woman as oppressed superheroes and males as privileged oppressors. This with the goal of getting more people into a debased field while salaries and family-work balance keep getting worse.
- watwut 5y ago
  > painting the woman as oppressed superheroes and males as privileged oppressors Which part of article is painting women as oppressed and which one even mentions men? And also, the amount of scientists is limited by open positions. There is literally no need for anyone to higher up supplies of those, you have dozens of PhDs for every post doc position.
- madeofpalk 5y ago
  You seem to be projecting a lot on to the article that wasn’t actually there. I would question why you feel the need to do that.

cblconfederate 5y ago

> were employed by the Soviet the difference is that they worked

gccs 5y ago

>We now consider that to be propaganda. We always considered it propaganda. Just like modern day advertising and marketing. Its all propaganda. They are trying to convince you to believe something (that is likely not true. ie: we have the best product)

darksfall 5y ago
I took a 'Proper Gander' at it and without praising Mattel I couldn't overly condemn them for it either.
ekianjo 5y ago
The problem is when nobody recognizes it as propaganda anymore, like this article.
- watwut 5y ago
  The article is primary about two Australian women who served as models for those toys.

watwut 5y ago

What properties the doll or figurine have to satisfy to not be propaganda? There are hundreds of barbie occupations: yoga teachers barbies, ballerina barbies, hairdresser barbies, chef barbie, meme maker (? lol) barbie ... do they all count as propaganda too?

ekianjo 5y ago
One good step would be to stop romanticizing everything it touches as being glamorous.

hncurious 5y ago

"I am a profesional in the science industry and the profession is so debased I would not recommend my children to get into the field. We all talk about burnout and loss of meaning." I'm curious to hear more about this. What's causing the debasement and loss of meaning in the field?

chestertn 5y ago
It is a long topic and the causes I don't understand well. We spend more time trying to obtain funding and satisfying some metrics rather than doing actual research we find meaningful or useful to society. The competition among peers in your same lab makes difficult to build healthy work relationships. We see how much of the people that become successful do it so in a way which is orthogonal to scientific values. This might be something that has been going on since "the world is world" but talking with the old timers it seems it has been exacerbated in the last decades. In addition to that all, in the universities and research labs, the HR and management departments have exploded (Have you seen the graph at [1]?) And they all seem to focus in stuff like in the article rather than taking care of the existing talent. This article might lay the issues better than I did [2] [1] https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/eyyiyheucaug4wt.png https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/ey... [2] http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/decline.txt http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/decline.txt