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> It can also cause the battery to age faster than normal in hot climates. This is the critical piece for me: ostensibly electric vehicles are cheaper to maint

> It can also cause the battery to age faster than normal in hot climates. This is the critical piece for me: ostensibly electric vehicles are cheaper to maintain due to less moving parts, but the inevitable battery pack repair or replacement is a potentially huge cost hanging over the head of the owner. If you're "lucky" the battery pack falls below five bars within the Leaf's 100k mile / 8 year warranty and you get a complete replacement, otherwise Nissan will repair or replace to get the owner to nine of twelve bars. Please note I'm not making a case against electric vehicles, just against passively cooled battery packs. If you baby an ICE engine, keep it well maintained, change the oil regularly, moving parts in it will still eventually wear out. EV manufacturers need to work on closing that gap between ICE engine durability which can be decades and that of battery packs which is not there yet.

jfengel 5y ago
Thing is, it's just the battery packs. Along with the tires, it's practically the only thing on the car that can wear out. The electric motors are practically forever. It doesn't have a transmission. It barely touches the brakes. It doesn't have oil to change. There's no fuel pump, and the cooling pump puts in far less work on warm battery packs than a super-hot engine. They need to get to Tesla's "million mile battery" eventually, but that doesn't seem like a fusion/AI/warp drive kinda thing. It'll be here before most existing batteries have worn out. At which time a lot of people will want a newer car (with newer features and comforts) anyway.
- technofiend 5y ago
  Yes, that's the theory. So far Car and Driver's testing hasn't yet yielded those savings at their 30k mile update. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-model-3-reliability-maintenance/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-mo... One of the pitches we hear often on the switch to EV ownership is that electric vehicles are cheaper to maintain. But, as we close in on 40,000 miles in a Tesla Model 3, the actual savings in service costs is turning out to be quite minimal. Sure, the Model 3 needs no oil changes, which in theory should save us significant cost. However, the Model 3's requirement that we lubricate the brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles—something specified for areas that use road salt in the winter months—has cost nearly as much, totaling $432 for three such services thus far, which often also include a tire rotation. Although that's less than the $539 we spent on maintenance for our BMW M340i or the $728 for our Kia Telluride, that savings works out to between $6 and $15 a month over the course of our nearly two years of ownership, which would be barely noticeable in an owner's budget.
  - jfengel 5y ago
    What an odd article. The whole point is long-term maintenance. A 30,000 mile car is barely broken in these days. It's great that a new ICE car can legitimately be expected to break 250,000 miles. They're much, much less of a hassle than they used to be. My 1992 Honda was recommended for oil changes every 3,000 miles; the 2007 upped that to 5,000. These days I gather it's often 10,000. I can't imagine why they're spending $150 apiece on brake caliper lubrication. It's a ten minute job, and it doesn't require a specialized Tesla mechanic. They also seem to be getting some cheap service for their ICE vehicles. Most cars get recommended more serious service at 15k and 30k -- services that can easily run $500. I'm especially impressed that they managed to spend so little on BMW service. Do they not recommend 15k and 30k service? Because they should have spent at least that much on oil changes, much less the air filters and brake service and whatever other stuff is recommended.

jfengel 5y ago

Thing is, it's just the battery packs. Along with the tires, it's practically the only thing on the car that can wear out. The electric motors are practically forever. It doesn't have a transmission. It barely touches the brakes. It doesn't have oil to change. There's no fuel pump, and the cooling pump puts in far less work on warm battery packs than a super-hot engine. They need to get to Tesla's "million mile battery" eventually, but that doesn't seem like a fusion/AI/warp drive kinda thing. It'll be here before most existing batteries have worn out. At which time a lot of people will want a newer car (with newer features and comforts) anyway.

technofiend 5y ago
Yes, that's the theory. So far Car and Driver's testing hasn't yet yielded those savings at their 30k mile update. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-model-3-reliability-maintenance/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-mo... One of the pitches we hear often on the switch to EV ownership is that electric vehicles are cheaper to maintain. But, as we close in on 40,000 miles in a Tesla Model 3, the actual savings in service costs is turning out to be quite minimal. Sure, the Model 3 needs no oil changes, which in theory should save us significant cost. However, the Model 3's requirement that we lubricate the brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles—something specified for areas that use road salt in the winter months—has cost nearly as much, totaling $432 for three such services thus far, which often also include a tire rotation. Although that's less than the $539 we spent on maintenance for our BMW M340i or the $728 for our Kia Telluride, that savings works out to between $6 and $15 a month over the course of our nearly two years of ownership, which would be barely noticeable in an owner's budget.
- jfengel 5y ago
  What an odd article. The whole point is long-term maintenance. A 30,000 mile car is barely broken in these days. It's great that a new ICE car can legitimately be expected to break 250,000 miles. They're much, much less of a hassle than they used to be. My 1992 Honda was recommended for oil changes every 3,000 miles; the 2007 upped that to 5,000. These days I gather it's often 10,000. I can't imagine why they're spending $150 apiece on brake caliper lubrication. It's a ten minute job, and it doesn't require a specialized Tesla mechanic. They also seem to be getting some cheap service for their ICE vehicles. Most cars get recommended more serious service at 15k and 30k -- services that can easily run $500. I'm especially impressed that they managed to spend so little on BMW service. Do they not recommend 15k and 30k service? Because they should have spent at least that much on oil changes, much less the air filters and brake service and whatever other stuff is recommended.