8 ms·

I have experienced this first hand. I have applied for a LOT of jobs in the last 2 years and one of two things happens: They don't talk to me, or they do, and I

I have experienced this first hand. I have applied for a LOT of jobs in the last 2 years and one of two things happens: They don't talk to me, or they do, and I sail past the preliminary interviews only to get rejected after the background check. I am not a felon, a terrorist, or a scourge of society. I have bad credit.(Funny/sad aside, I once went to Best Buy to see if I could get a card to finance something with the idea of improving my credit score. I was rejected summarily. I was trying to buy a toaster. I literally can't finance a toaster.) This scarlet letter had precluded me from any job paying a living wage. And that's why I'm retraining myself. No one cares what the FICO score of a talented software engineer is. At least, that's what I desperately hope the case is. For recruiters out there: Do you care about the credit of a potential coder?

Nate75Sanders 15y ago
Forgive my ignorance: What jobs are asking you your credit score?
- david927 15y ago
  I saw it a couple years ago in the States, for technical and managerial jobs, and I was shocked and horrified.
- oneofthefive 15y ago
  If you want to be a programmer at a financial firm they usually care about your credit score.
  - achompas 15y ago
    This makes sense, as financial firms want to avoid cash-strapped employees who might sell HFT algorithms to competing firms for money.
    - oneofthefive 15y ago
      Your credit score has nothing to do with being strapped for cash. You can have plenty of cash and a bad or nonexistent credit score.
      - achompas 15y ago
        What you're saying is true, but It's difficult to imagine a common scenario where someone with a lot of poor credit decisions has a lot of cash on hand, as those credit decisions usually occur because of limited cash flow. Also, companies can tell when low scores result from sparse history or poor decisions. They don't just get a 3-digit number. The issue here isn't low scores per se, but low scores resulting from poor history.
dools 15y ago
I heard this for the first time on HN the other day. I think (and certainly hope) it's illegal for potential employers in Australia to use your credit file as a factor in deciding whether or not to hire you. Not hiring people with bad credit seems to me to be patently absurd. Talk about kicking someone when they're down - as if non-payment of debt was a crime! It seems that the likely result of this for most is the development of a disenfranchised underclass of black market employees. Having healthcare attached to employment makes this all the more despicable. Why aren't people in the U.S just rioting in the streets?! This is the real outrage.
- dschobel 15y ago
  Not sure about hiring but I just checked my employment agreement (I'm in Oz) and my employer can definitely fire me if I declare bankruptcy: *the Company may terminate your employment without notice (no payment in lieu of notice will be paid) in any of the following circumstances: ×If you become unable to pay your debts as they become due ×If you are declared bankrupt;
  - pyre 15y ago
    What would be the point of firing you immediately on declaration of bankruptcy? Does "unable to pay your debts as they become due" mean that if you make a late payment or get a month behind, they can fire you?
    - dschobel 15y ago
      According to the letter of the contract, it sure seems that way. I went over the contract with the HR team back in the states (I was transferred over to Oz) and they thought these clauses were very strange. Especially considering that Australian workers have much stronger labor rights in practically every other way compared to the US.
      - joahua 15y ago
        I'm Australian but not a lawyer... have heard "unable to pay debts as and when they fall due" as a definition of insolvency, which requires one to declare bankruptcy if directing, say, a limited liability company. The actual act of becoming bankrupt is separate to insolvency, though, so they're probably just trying to cover all bases. Again, not a lawyer, and only passingly familiar with this stuff, so excuse me if I'm stating the obvious or if it's the same the world over.
potatolicious 15y ago
I've always wondered why an employer would demand good credit. Even if the person is a spendthrift, what does it matter so long as they perform their job? My employee could be living in a shack having had every single item of worth repossessed... but if they can do their job well, why wouldn't I hire them? In any case, I know what you mean - I'm from Canada, and arrived in the US after the financial meltdown and subsequent tightening of the credit belt. I still don't have a credit rating since I couldn't convince any major bank in the USA to give me a credit card. Yes, this includes secured credit cards (i.e., you leave a month's credit limit with the bank in cash, if you miss your bill at all, they take the entire sum... aka zero risk for the bank) And yes, my credit in Canada is stellar - but that counts for absolutely zip in this country. It's not until very recently that I was able to flash about an employer's name and convince one of them to cut me some slack. It'll be months still before my credit score populates - this has made renting apartments, and just about everything a nightmare. The only way I've been able to skate by is by flashing an offer letter and pay stubs showing I make >3x the US median income... imagine if my pay was dead average... I'd be fucked.
- reitzensteinm 15y ago
  At a guess, it probably indicates that the employee is a higher than an average risk of engaging in fraud (to pay off debts), and it probably does, again on average, speak to their discipline, maturity, life skills, etc. The trouble with that thinking is of course the multitude of reasons that someone can get into debt through no fault of their own - especially in the US with health care - the fact that people often mature faster than their credit score recovers, not to mention situations like your own where there's no credit score to begin with. I'm glad that in my native Australia, as another poster pointed out, it's illegal to discriminate based on credit score for hiring purposes. It seems that the small amount of good businesses may get from this discrimination is way out balanced by the harm it causes society in general - though obviously I'm preaching to the choir here :)
  - sixtofour 15y ago
    Agreed. Also the less you're paid, and the less responsibility you have, the more you're scrutinized. Maybe because they can, maybe because at that level there are things you can physically steal, or break. Also maybe (please, I'm speculating) at that level there are likely to be more irresponsible people, and the time and expense of credit, drug and security checks becomes worthwhile.
diolpah 15y ago
Your experience stands in stark contrast to what the general belief of the tech media, including HN, is. Specifically, that the job market for engineers is extremely tight and that even junior developers can name their price, that recruiters are spamming everyone who has ever written a line of ruby, and that even the dumbest ideas are attaining ludicrous levels of funding. I find it interesting that this 'tale of two cities' situation is becoming more pronounced.
oneofthefive 15y ago
Banks and financial firms care.
known 15y ago
Wondering if a potential employee can ask for employer's credit score

Nate75Sanders 15y ago

Forgive my ignorance: What jobs are asking you your credit score?

david927 15y ago
I saw it a couple years ago in the States, for technical and managerial jobs, and I was shocked and horrified.
oneofthefive 15y ago
If you want to be a programmer at a financial firm they usually care about your credit score.
- achompas 15y ago
  This makes sense, as financial firms want to avoid cash-strapped employees who might sell HFT algorithms to competing firms for money.
  - oneofthefive 15y ago
    Your credit score has nothing to do with being strapped for cash. You can have plenty of cash and a bad or nonexistent credit score.
    - achompas 15y ago
      What you're saying is true, but It's difficult to imagine a common scenario where someone with a lot of poor credit decisions has a lot of cash on hand, as those credit decisions usually occur because of limited cash flow. Also, companies can tell when low scores result from sparse history or poor decisions. They don't just get a 3-digit number. The issue here isn't low scores per se, but low scores resulting from poor history.

dools 15y ago

I heard this for the first time on HN the other day. I think (and certainly hope) it's illegal for potential employers in Australia to use your credit file as a factor in deciding whether or not to hire you. Not hiring people with bad credit seems to me to be patently absurd. Talk about kicking someone when they're down - as if non-payment of debt was a crime! It seems that the likely result of this for most is the development of a disenfranchised underclass of black market employees. Having healthcare attached to employment makes this all the more despicable. Why aren't people in the U.S just rioting in the streets?! This is the real outrage.

dschobel 15y ago
Not sure about hiring but I just checked my employment agreement (I'm in Oz) and my employer can definitely fire me if I declare bankruptcy: *the Company may terminate your employment without notice (no payment in lieu of notice will be paid) in any of the following circumstances: ×If you become unable to pay your debts as they become due ×If you are declared bankrupt;
- pyre 15y ago
  What would be the point of firing you immediately on declaration of bankruptcy? Does "unable to pay your debts as they become due" mean that if you make a late payment or get a month behind, they can fire you?
  - dschobel 15y ago
    According to the letter of the contract, it sure seems that way. I went over the contract with the HR team back in the states (I was transferred over to Oz) and they thought these clauses were very strange. Especially considering that Australian workers have much stronger labor rights in practically every other way compared to the US.
    - joahua 15y ago
      I'm Australian but not a lawyer... have heard "unable to pay debts as and when they fall due" as a definition of insolvency, which requires one to declare bankruptcy if directing, say, a limited liability company. The actual act of becoming bankrupt is separate to insolvency, though, so they're probably just trying to cover all bases. Again, not a lawyer, and only passingly familiar with this stuff, so excuse me if I'm stating the obvious or if it's the same the world over.

potatolicious 15y ago

I've always wondered why an employer would demand good credit. Even if the person is a spendthrift, what does it matter so long as they perform their job? My employee could be living in a shack having had every single item of worth repossessed... but if they can do their job well, why wouldn't I hire them? In any case, I know what you mean - I'm from Canada, and arrived in the US after the financial meltdown and subsequent tightening of the credit belt. I still don't have a credit rating since I couldn't convince any major bank in the USA to give me a credit card. Yes, this includes secured credit cards (i.e., you leave a month's credit limit with the bank in cash, if you miss your bill at all, they take the entire sum... aka zero risk for the bank) And yes, my credit in Canada is stellar - but that counts for absolutely zip in this country. It's not until very recently that I was able to flash about an employer's name and convince one of them to cut me some slack. It'll be months still before my credit score populates - this has made renting apartments, and just about everything a nightmare. The only way I've been able to skate by is by flashing an offer letter and pay stubs showing I make >3x the US median income... imagine if my pay was dead average... I'd be fucked.

reitzensteinm 15y ago
At a guess, it probably indicates that the employee is a higher than an average risk of engaging in fraud (to pay off debts), and it probably does, again on average, speak to their discipline, maturity, life skills, etc. The trouble with that thinking is of course the multitude of reasons that someone can get into debt through no fault of their own - especially in the US with health care - the fact that people often mature faster than their credit score recovers, not to mention situations like your own where there's no credit score to begin with. I'm glad that in my native Australia, as another poster pointed out, it's illegal to discriminate based on credit score for hiring purposes. It seems that the small amount of good businesses may get from this discrimination is way out balanced by the harm it causes society in general - though obviously I'm preaching to the choir here :)
- sixtofour 15y ago
  Agreed. Also the less you're paid, and the less responsibility you have, the more you're scrutinized. Maybe because they can, maybe because at that level there are things you can physically steal, or break. Also maybe (please, I'm speculating) at that level there are likely to be more irresponsible people, and the time and expense of credit, drug and security checks becomes worthwhile.

diolpah 15y ago

Your experience stands in stark contrast to what the general belief of the tech media, including HN, is. Specifically, that the job market for engineers is extremely tight and that even junior developers can name their price, that recruiters are spamming everyone who has ever written a line of ruby, and that even the dumbest ideas are attaining ludicrous levels of funding. I find it interesting that this 'tale of two cities' situation is becoming more pronounced.

oneofthefive 15y ago

Banks and financial firms care.

known 15y ago

Wondering if a potential employee can ask for employer's credit score