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> In this case, Windows 10 will continue to run on your computer perfectly fine. Microsoft are not changing anything about Windows 10, or the way people use Win

by suby 5y ago

> In this case, Windows 10 will continue to run on your computer perfectly fine. Microsoft are not changing anything about Windows 10, or the way people use Windows 10, or removing any Windows 10 'ownership' that people have right now. This isn't exactly comforting or acceptable. Windows 10 will stop receiving security updates in what, 5 years? I have a desktop computer from 2014 that I use daily, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. The amount of (unnecessary) ewaste Microsoft will create by going through with this decision is staggering.

sundvor 5y ago
Ditto. Build high end computers and they'll last a decade or longer, at least since ~2011.
- typh00n 5y ago
  Yes. Me and my father are daily driving PCs from 2007, because they are fine for what we do.
buran77 5y ago
MS is between a rock and a hard place when it comes to security and legacy support but I still think they approached this the wrong way. Windows is both the most popular PC OS and a huge target because of that legacy baggage they're been carrying around for years. On the other hand every other device on the market now (mobile phone, tablets, everything Apple) are almost completely locked down from the user's perspective so MS probably feels they are safe in joining the rest of the world in tying the user's hands. I understand the move towards better security but they should also consider extending Windows 10 support beyond the current end of 2025 deadline, given the harsh requirements for upgrade. You could buy a brand new MS device today and see it turn into an unsupported paperweight in just 4 years. The security pros for Secure Boot shouldn't come at the cost of millions of useless and unsupported PCs so early in their (historically long) lifecycle.
- propertymagnate 5y ago
  That's not security for the consumer, that's security for their business model and being able to force the consumer in to a walled garden.
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  I bet they'll allow Windows 11 upgrade for all computers, when Windows 10 will stop receiving updates. They just want to force manufacturers to make all motherboards with TPM 2.0. There's no technical reasons to forbid those upgrades, just political ones.
  - tored 5y ago
    Not so sure, the future of the computer is being a client on a corporate controlled network. TPM is necessary to allow or ban clients on such network.
    - Caspy7 5y ago
      I'm probably not as technical as the average HN commenter so maybe you can fill me in... I've had personal computers for years and none of them have been on corporate networks so I don't see how MS should care about me in that - and for actual businesses aren't their hardware turnaround times generally less than 5 years? Is this all worth it to shave off that 1%?
      - tored 5y ago
        Corporate network = cloud. Cloud account, cloud storage, cloud applications, cloud content, cloud security, cloud messaging, cloud meeting, cloud moderation. Everything will be in the cloud and connected with a subscription, paid or with ads. Your computer will only be client connected to those services, and just as users getting banned from different internet services by breaking the user agreement, you will be banned from your computer for breaking the user agreement. The distinction between the computer and the internet services will be very fuzzy because they will be intertwined. Also read this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28059074 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28059074
denton-scratch 5y ago
Microsoft insisted that Win10 was their last Windows OS; that it would be the current OS, and continue to receive updates, in perpetuity. I for one have relied on that declaration. Doesn't that count as deceptive marketing? I mean, the timespan between Win10 and Win11 is comparable to the timespan between Win8 and Win10. Does Microsoft lack a corporate memory? Have they said anything about this discrepancy between their forward-looking announcements and their actual behaviour? Do they think it doesn't matter what BS they spin to their prospective customers?
kyriakos 5y ago
Your pc is 7 years old today and windows 10 will receive updates for another 4 years, that's 11 years, and you can keep using it after but without security updates (which I think Microsoft will eventually give in and extend them longer). 11 years (or possibly more is a good lifetime for a pc considering people now change cars more often than that)
- suby 5y ago
  > Your pc is 7 years old today and windows 10 will receive updates for another 4 years, that's 11 years, and you can keep using it after but without security updates (which I think Microsoft will eventually give in and extend them longer). 11 years (or possibly more is a good lifetime for a pc considering people now change cars more often than that) To go through your points, people are still buying new computers today which Windows 11 will not support, so we're looking at a 5 year life cycle for that hardware if those users do not do something like switch to Linux, which we know most people will not. Using a PC which is no longer receiving security updates is a terrible idea if it's connected to the internet. Continuing to use the device while it is connected to the internet is not a viable option. Most importantly, even if my computer happens to be 11 years old at that time, if it still works, it still works. I 100% reject the idea that people should retire perfectly fine computers over unnecessary and arbitrary hardware requirements. What really gets me upset about this whole situation is the marketing around Windows 10, and how it would be the last version of Windows ever.

by suby 5y ago

sundvor 5y ago

Ditto. Build high end computers and they'll last a decade or longer, at least since ~2011.

typh00n 5y ago
Yes. Me and my father are daily driving PCs from 2007, because they are fine for what we do.

buran77 5y ago

MS is between a rock and a hard place when it comes to security and legacy support but I still think they approached this the wrong way. Windows is both the most popular PC OS and a huge target because of that legacy baggage they're been carrying around for years. On the other hand every other device on the market now (mobile phone, tablets, everything Apple) are almost completely locked down from the user's perspective so MS probably feels they are safe in joining the rest of the world in tying the user's hands. I understand the move towards better security but they should also consider extending Windows 10 support beyond the current end of 2025 deadline, given the harsh requirements for upgrade. You could buy a brand new MS device today and see it turn into an unsupported paperweight in just 4 years. The security pros for Secure Boot shouldn't come at the cost of millions of useless and unsupported PCs so early in their (historically long) lifecycle.

propertymagnate 5y ago
That's not security for the consumer, that's security for their business model and being able to force the consumer in to a walled garden.
vbezhenar 5y ago
I bet they'll allow Windows 11 upgrade for all computers, when Windows 10 will stop receiving updates. They just want to force manufacturers to make all motherboards with TPM 2.0. There's no technical reasons to forbid those upgrades, just political ones.
- tored 5y ago
  Not so sure, the future of the computer is being a client on a corporate controlled network. TPM is necessary to allow or ban clients on such network.
  - Caspy7 5y ago
    I'm probably not as technical as the average HN commenter so maybe you can fill me in... I've had personal computers for years and none of them have been on corporate networks so I don't see how MS should care about me in that - and for actual businesses aren't their hardware turnaround times generally less than 5 years? Is this all worth it to shave off that 1%?
    - tored 5y ago
      Corporate network = cloud. Cloud account, cloud storage, cloud applications, cloud content, cloud security, cloud messaging, cloud meeting, cloud moderation. Everything will be in the cloud and connected with a subscription, paid or with ads. Your computer will only be client connected to those services, and just as users getting banned from different internet services by breaking the user agreement, you will be banned from your computer for breaking the user agreement. The distinction between the computer and the internet services will be very fuzzy because they will be intertwined. Also read this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28059074 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28059074

denton-scratch 5y ago

Microsoft insisted that Win10 was their last Windows OS; that it would be the current OS, and continue to receive updates, in perpetuity. I for one have relied on that declaration. Doesn't that count as deceptive marketing? I mean, the timespan between Win10 and Win11 is comparable to the timespan between Win8 and Win10. Does Microsoft lack a corporate memory? Have they said anything about this discrepancy between their forward-looking announcements and their actual behaviour? Do they think it doesn't matter what BS they spin to their prospective customers?

kyriakos 5y ago

Your pc is 7 years old today and windows 10 will receive updates for another 4 years, that's 11 years, and you can keep using it after but without security updates (which I think Microsoft will eventually give in and extend them longer). 11 years (or possibly more is a good lifetime for a pc considering people now change cars more often than that)

suby 5y ago
> Your pc is 7 years old today and windows 10 will receive updates for another 4 years, that's 11 years, and you can keep using it after but without security updates (which I think Microsoft will eventually give in and extend them longer). 11 years (or possibly more is a good lifetime for a pc considering people now change cars more often than that) To go through your points, people are still buying new computers today which Windows 11 will not support, so we're looking at a 5 year life cycle for that hardware if those users do not do something like switch to Linux, which we know most people will not. Using a PC which is no longer receiving security updates is a terrible idea if it's connected to the internet. Continuing to use the device while it is connected to the internet is not a viable option. Most importantly, even if my computer happens to be 11 years old at that time, if it still works, it still works. I 100% reject the idea that people should retire perfectly fine computers over unnecessary and arbitrary hardware requirements. What really gets me upset about this whole situation is the marketing around Windows 10, and how it would be the last version of Windows ever.