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I'm not going to touch on anything but what you said at the end: >it's not like they have other things to do while in prison. And I'd like to point out that i

I'm not going to touch on anything but what you said at the end: >it's not like they have other things to do while in prison. And I'd like to point out that in prison, generally you're expected to work, and if you don't work, you are placed in a box that's both cold and too small to lay down comfortably in. It's the only legal form of slavery that's allowed under the constitution of the united states, and it's being used. The California wild fires are being fought with prison labor. So, the people in prison do have things to do, or they get the box.

France_is_bacon 5y ago
Right, thanks for the info. I just read up on prison work. From what I read, it seems like it varies a lot from prison to prison and state to state on the actual number of hours worked per day. Some say an hour or two a day, and some said that it can be as much as 8 or 10 hours per day. Additionally, many of the jobs do pay money. Not a lot, but it does allow prisoners to put some money into their canteen allowance, which is a really big deal in prison, from what I read. I've also read that a lot of the work detail is pretty lax. Sweep the prison might be 2 hours per day, and even then, you sweep a few yards, then you rest on your broom for 15 minutes. Again, this is not me but what I heard when I watched prison videos by ex-cons. In any case, it seems like there is a LOT of discretion around the mandatory work issue. So it would seem to me that in a prison, if a prisoner wanted to work on getting a degree, that he or she should be able to use work hours for that and either the warden or the state law allow it. After all, it is the most proven thing I've ever seen to prevent recidivism. That's what we want. We don't want someone to get out of prison and start breaking into our homes and cars. I've had my car broken into many times, and it's a pain because it costs money, but the bigger pain is the time it takes to deal with it. As far as slavery....well, I understand your point. However, people are incarcerated and put in a cage against their will. Because when you break the law and get caught, you give up your freedom to choose. It's not just forced work, but even if one didn't have to work, it still is like slavery - you are made to live in one place, can't have visitors except when supervised and get permission and for very short periods, told when and where to eat and must eat what they serve. It's pretty much slavery anyways, even taking the work part out. But as I hear it on the videos that I watch from former prisoners, most prisoners WANT to work, because it gets boring in prison, so while it is mandatory, it's also by choice too. And some jobs are very much coveted by prisoners. And mostly the do get paid. Probably a good idea to pay 50 cents so that the poor convicts with no family to put money in the canteen account will get something, as I said before, the canteen is extremely important.
- mikeblackson 5y ago
  Both of your statements come from a place of tremendous privilege and the rationalizing of slavery ($0.20-0.50 of income in 2021 is good?) so some of the largest companies in the US and the defense department can manufacture goods with huge profit margins is problematic. Perhaps more independent research about this topic is required on your end.
  - France_is_bacon 5y ago
    oooooo.....the scary "privilege" claim. I guess that is used as the general end-all word. I guess because you used the word "privilege", that's the end of the discussion.
    - mikeblackson 5y ago
      I'm quite comfortable but would never advocate slavery for any human being. If anything these prisoners should be paid a minimum wage and funds only released post completion of sentence. A significant % of recidivism is due to being poor and having little to no options from my understanding. >Because when you break the law and get caught, you give up your freedom to choose. Being poor in the USA is a criminal offense.

France_is_bacon 5y ago

Right, thanks for the info. I just read up on prison work. From what I read, it seems like it varies a lot from prison to prison and state to state on the actual number of hours worked per day. Some say an hour or two a day, and some said that it can be as much as 8 or 10 hours per day. Additionally, many of the jobs do pay money. Not a lot, but it does allow prisoners to put some money into their canteen allowance, which is a really big deal in prison, from what I read. I've also read that a lot of the work detail is pretty lax. Sweep the prison might be 2 hours per day, and even then, you sweep a few yards, then you rest on your broom for 15 minutes. Again, this is not me but what I heard when I watched prison videos by ex-cons. In any case, it seems like there is a LOT of discretion around the mandatory work issue. So it would seem to me that in a prison, if a prisoner wanted to work on getting a degree, that he or she should be able to use work hours for that and either the warden or the state law allow it. After all, it is the most proven thing I've ever seen to prevent recidivism. That's what we want. We don't want someone to get out of prison and start breaking into our homes and cars. I've had my car broken into many times, and it's a pain because it costs money, but the bigger pain is the time it takes to deal with it. As far as slavery....well, I understand your point. However, people are incarcerated and put in a cage against their will. Because when you break the law and get caught, you give up your freedom to choose. It's not just forced work, but even if one didn't have to work, it still is like slavery - you are made to live in one place, can't have visitors except when supervised and get permission and for very short periods, told when and where to eat and must eat what they serve. It's pretty much slavery anyways, even taking the work part out. But as I hear it on the videos that I watch from former prisoners, most prisoners WANT to work, because it gets boring in prison, so while it is mandatory, it's also by choice too. And some jobs are very much coveted by prisoners. And mostly the do get paid. Probably a good idea to pay 50 cents so that the poor convicts with no family to put money in the canteen account will get something, as I said before, the canteen is extremely important.

mikeblackson 5y ago
Both of your statements come from a place of tremendous privilege and the rationalizing of slavery ($0.20-0.50 of income in 2021 is good?) so some of the largest companies in the US and the defense department can manufacture goods with huge profit margins is problematic. Perhaps more independent research about this topic is required on your end.
- France_is_bacon 5y ago
  oooooo.....the scary "privilege" claim. I guess that is used as the general end-all word. I guess because you used the word "privilege", that's the end of the discussion.
  - mikeblackson 5y ago
    I'm quite comfortable but would never advocate slavery for any human being. If anything these prisoners should be paid a minimum wage and funds only released post completion of sentence. A significant % of recidivism is due to being poor and having little to no options from my understanding. >Because when you break the law and get caught, you give up your freedom to choose. Being poor in the USA is a criminal offense.