3 ms·

You know what would make requirements like these much more palatable? If there was accommodation for people who already have antibodies (ie have been infected a

You know what would make requirements like these much more palatable? If there was accommodation for people who already have antibodies (ie have been infected and recovered). There is mounting evidence that people with naturally acquired immunity will not significantly benefit from further vaccination [1][2]. This is a strong argument for strategically targeting our vaccination efforts toward the highest risk populations: elderly with comorbidities, and people who have not yet been exposed and lack access to modern healthcare facilities (ie rural populations in developing countries). Alas, the rhetoric from the top continues to maintain that - as quoted in the article - this is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated". As a final point, what also seems to be chronically left out, is the evidence that combinations of existing medicines have proven very effective at preventing hospitalization and death [3]. [1] SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4.pdf [2] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v3.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v... [3] Multifaceted highly targeted sequential multidrug treatment of early ambulatory high-risk SARS-CoV-2 infection (COVID-19) https://scholarlycommons.henryford.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1139&context=infectiousdiseases_articles https://scholarlycommons.henryford.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a...

wahern 5y ago
> There is mounting evidence that people with naturally acquired immunity will not significantly benefit from further vaccination It's a shame that the mainstream, public health narrative unquestioningly rejects prior infection as an alternative. All substantial evidence points to the contrary. That said, identifying those who've legitimately had a prior infection is rather difficult. There are no "I had a PCR-confirmed infection" passports. A large and unlikely fraction of the population believes they were infected, with endless anecdotes about illnesses at the end of 2019 and beginning of 2020. Furthermore, vaccination really shouldn't pose any undue risk to this population. But, yeah, it's yet another unforced error by public health officials (or at least the media interpreting and relaying their guidance) to outright reject this argument.
- criticaltinker 5y ago
  Well put, and I definitely agree on the point of verifying prior infection being difficult and costly. > Furthermore, vaccination really shouldn't pose any undue risk to this population I also agree with this point, and it is corroborated by the primary sources I've reviewed. That said, I want to emphasize that it doesn't seem like a good tradeoff to waste vaccines on people who will not benefit from it, especially if that precludes vaccinating the most vulnerable populations across the world.
- dagsdgfhdgdj 5y ago
  > There are no "I had a PCR-confirmed infection" passports Despite its name the EU COVID vaccination certificate also covers recording PCR-confirmed infections and even tests. It is open source so even less developed countries like the US could use it if they wanted to.
  - wahern 5y ago
    Interesting. Thank you for pointing that out. The "less developed" comment may have turned some people off, but FWIW: > An EU Digital COVID Certificate is a digital proof that a person has either 1) been vaccinated against COVID-19, 2) received a negative test result, or 3) recovered from COVID-19. Regarding negative tests it says: > The Member States agreed on a standard validity period for tests: 72 hours for PCR tests and, where accepted by a Member State, 48 hours for rapid antigen tests. Source: https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-response/safe-covid-19-vaccines-europeans/eu-digital-covid-certificate_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-re... (reformatted from original as plain text) I wonder what the standard is for "recovered from COVID-19"; i.e. whether it's just a doctor's diagnosis, contemporaneous PCR confirmation, or subsequent antibody test.

wahern 5y ago

> There is mounting evidence that people with naturally acquired immunity will not significantly benefit from further vaccination It's a shame that the mainstream, public health narrative unquestioningly rejects prior infection as an alternative. All substantial evidence points to the contrary. That said, identifying those who've legitimately had a prior infection is rather difficult. There are no "I had a PCR-confirmed infection" passports. A large and unlikely fraction of the population believes they were infected, with endless anecdotes about illnesses at the end of 2019 and beginning of 2020. Furthermore, vaccination really shouldn't pose any undue risk to this population. But, yeah, it's yet another unforced error by public health officials (or at least the media interpreting and relaying their guidance) to outright reject this argument.

criticaltinker 5y ago
Well put, and I definitely agree on the point of verifying prior infection being difficult and costly. > Furthermore, vaccination really shouldn't pose any undue risk to this population I also agree with this point, and it is corroborated by the primary sources I've reviewed. That said, I want to emphasize that it doesn't seem like a good tradeoff to waste vaccines on people who will not benefit from it, especially if that precludes vaccinating the most vulnerable populations across the world.
dagsdgfhdgdj 5y ago
> There are no "I had a PCR-confirmed infection" passports Despite its name the EU COVID vaccination certificate also covers recording PCR-confirmed infections and even tests. It is open source so even less developed countries like the US could use it if they wanted to.
- wahern 5y ago
  Interesting. Thank you for pointing that out. The "less developed" comment may have turned some people off, but FWIW: > An EU Digital COVID Certificate is a digital proof that a person has either 1) been vaccinated against COVID-19, 2) received a negative test result, or 3) recovered from COVID-19. Regarding negative tests it says: > The Member States agreed on a standard validity period for tests: 72 hours for PCR tests and, where accepted by a Member State, 48 hours for rapid antigen tests. Source: https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-response/safe-covid-19-vaccines-europeans/eu-digital-covid-certificate_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-re... (reformatted from original as plain text) I wonder what the standard is for "recovered from COVID-19"; i.e. whether it's just a doctor's diagnosis, contemporaneous PCR confirmation, or subsequent antibody test.