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This logic is shete. There are already several classes of people who either can’t or shouldn’t take the vaccines: kids under twelve, immunocompromised, and peop

by babesh 5y ago

This logic is shete. There are already several classes of people who either can’t or shouldn’t take the vaccines: kids under twelve, immunocompromised, and people who have severe reactions to vaccines. It’s weird but I happen to have family members in several of those categories. According to this shete logic, we should close all elementary schools, daycares, and nursing homes.

babesh 5y ago
Also it is psychotic to vaccinate kids right now. We don’t have a good sense of the long term side effects of the vaccine. We usually figure that out with long term trials lasting years.
- himinlomax 5y ago
  Yes we do. There are hundreds of vaccines, none have long term side effects. There was some suspicion regarding one flu vaccine and narcolepsy, but it's been mostly ruled out and is entirely due to the peculiar etiology of that disorder, not the vaccine as such (the virus it targets is the known trigger for that autoimmune disorder).
  - babesh 5y ago
    You are full of shit. There is a chance of heart inflammation. Now you might say that COVID-19 is worse but that is forcing someone to basically play roulette on themselves for society. https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2021/07/31/coronavirus-teen-vaccine-less-heart-risk-sick-study/7241627680038/ https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2021/07/31/coronavirus-teen-...
    - himinlomax 5y ago
      Not getting vaccinated is playing roulette as well, and the odds are clear. The point is that not getting vaccinated is not just playing roulette with your own head, but with others'.
      - babesh 5y ago
        No. The odds differ for each individual. It may be the case that for a particular individual it is better for them not to take it.
        himinlomax 5y ago
        Except that it's demonstrably not.
        babesh 5y ago
        There is no need to argue with you anymore. First you say that all vaccines are safe. Then when I find examples of them being unsafe, you say it was a manufacturing mistake from 60 years ago. Then when I find another from 1998 you argue that bowel obstructions are not long term and that it was 3 decades ago. Then I find another from only 4 years ago and you say that it is only one example. Then I go and find two more. Keep on walking back your claims. Note that many of these vaccines were already approved and not under emergency use authorization. Ever wonder how many side effects vaccines under trial have and how many never make it out of trials?
        himinlomax 5y ago
        I never said all vaccines are safe. You were not arguing with me, you were arguing with a strawman of your own making.
        babesh 5y ago
        Himinlomax - “Yes we do. There are hundreds of vaccines, none have long term side effects. There was some suspicion regarding one flu vaccine and narcolepsy, but it's been mostly ruled out and is entirely due to the peculiar etiology of that disorder, not the vaccine as such (the virus it targets is the known trigger for that autoimmune disord…” “Ah, at last, one relevant example. So you're right, there is one case where a vaccine had negative side effects, long term. Out of hundreds of vaccines. Doesn't change much to the argument, statistically.” “I never said all vaccines are safe.”
  - babesh 5y ago
    You are wrong. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.... Go look at the Cutter incident. It killed 10. Seems like the long term side effect that you claim does not exist. “ In 1955, some batches of polio vaccine given to the public contained live polio virus, even though they had passed required safety testing” Go look at the rotavirus incident. “ The results of the investigations showed that RotaShield vaccine caused intussusception in some healthy infants younger than 12 months of age who normally would be at low risk for this condition.” All from the CDC.
    - himinlomax 5y ago
      What a terrible example. You're taking as an example a case where a production defect resulted in contamination by the disease itself. The long term side effects are not caused by the vaccine as a vaccine, they were those of the disease a faulty vaccine contained. It boggles the mind how anyone can find this a compelling argument, but that's par for the course for antivaxers. Your second example is a short term effect, not a long term one. Wrong again.
      - babesh 5y ago
        Bowel obstructions kill you clown. Seems like a long term side effect to me.
        himinlomax 5y ago
        A bullet to the brain kills you more, but they're no more LONG TERM than a bowel obstruction shortly after injection. LONG TERM means years down the road. We already have a year of experience with this vaccine, starting with the participants of the first trials. This is just silly.
    - dagsdgfhdgdj 5y ago
      > Go look at the Cutter incident. It killed 10. Seems like the long term side effect that you claim does not exist. Not to mention what could happen if someone messed up and injected bleach instead of the vaccine. You have to go back over 60 years and even then only find issues caused by manufacturing problems, i.e., cases where not the intended vaccine was injected...

by babesh 5y ago

babesh 5y ago

Also it is psychotic to vaccinate kids right now. We don’t have a good sense of the long term side effects of the vaccine. We usually figure that out with long term trials lasting years.

himinlomax 5y ago
Yes we do. There are hundreds of vaccines, none have long term side effects. There was some suspicion regarding one flu vaccine and narcolepsy, but it's been mostly ruled out and is entirely due to the peculiar etiology of that disorder, not the vaccine as such (the virus it targets is the known trigger for that autoimmune disorder).
- babesh 5y ago
  You are full of shit. There is a chance of heart inflammation. Now you might say that COVID-19 is worse but that is forcing someone to basically play roulette on themselves for society. https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2021/07/31/coronavirus-teen-vaccine-less-heart-risk-sick-study/7241627680038/ https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2021/07/31/coronavirus-teen-...
  - himinlomax 5y ago
    Not getting vaccinated is playing roulette as well, and the odds are clear. The point is that not getting vaccinated is not just playing roulette with your own head, but with others'.
    - babesh 5y ago
      No. The odds differ for each individual. It may be the case that for a particular individual it is better for them not to take it.
      - himinlomax 5y ago
        Except that it's demonstrably not.
        babesh 5y ago
        There is no need to argue with you anymore. First you say that all vaccines are safe. Then when I find examples of them being unsafe, you say it was a manufacturing mistake from 60 years ago. Then when I find another from 1998 you argue that bowel obstructions are not long term and that it was 3 decades ago. Then I find another from only 4 years ago and you say that it is only one example. Then I go and find two more. Keep on walking back your claims. Note that many of these vaccines were already approved and not under emergency use authorization. Ever wonder how many side effects vaccines under trial have and how many never make it out of trials?
        himinlomax 5y ago
        I never said all vaccines are safe. You were not arguing with me, you were arguing with a strawman of your own making.
        babesh 5y ago
        Himinlomax - “Yes we do. There are hundreds of vaccines, none have long term side effects. There was some suspicion regarding one flu vaccine and narcolepsy, but it's been mostly ruled out and is entirely due to the peculiar etiology of that disorder, not the vaccine as such (the virus it targets is the known trigger for that autoimmune disord…” “Ah, at last, one relevant example. So you're right, there is one case where a vaccine had negative side effects, long term. Out of hundreds of vaccines. Doesn't change much to the argument, statistically.” “I never said all vaccines are safe.”
- babesh 5y ago
  You are wrong. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.... Go look at the Cutter incident. It killed 10. Seems like the long term side effect that you claim does not exist. “ In 1955, some batches of polio vaccine given to the public contained live polio virus, even though they had passed required safety testing” Go look at the rotavirus incident. “ The results of the investigations showed that RotaShield vaccine caused intussusception in some healthy infants younger than 12 months of age who normally would be at low risk for this condition.” All from the CDC.
  - himinlomax 5y ago
    What a terrible example. You're taking as an example a case where a production defect resulted in contamination by the disease itself. The long term side effects are not caused by the vaccine as a vaccine, they were those of the disease a faulty vaccine contained. It boggles the mind how anyone can find this a compelling argument, but that's par for the course for antivaxers. Your second example is a short term effect, not a long term one. Wrong again.
    - babesh 5y ago
      Bowel obstructions kill you clown. Seems like a long term side effect to me.
      - himinlomax 5y ago
        A bullet to the brain kills you more, but they're no more LONG TERM than a bowel obstruction shortly after injection. LONG TERM means years down the road. We already have a year of experience with this vaccine, starting with the participants of the first trials. This is just silly.
  - dagsdgfhdgdj 5y ago
    > Go look at the Cutter incident. It killed 10. Seems like the long term side effect that you claim does not exist. Not to mention what could happen if someone messed up and injected bleach instead of the vaccine. You have to go back over 60 years and even then only find issues caused by manufacturing problems, i.e., cases where not the intended vaccine was injected...