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My only interaction with unions directly has been when I was an underpaid wage slave in high school, before I got into the professional workforce. The union st

My only interaction with unions directly has been when I was an underpaid wage slave in high school, before I got into the professional workforce. The union steward at the store I worked at stole from the company and did drugs /at work/. I was forced to pay union dues even though I firmly rejected membership, as they were taken from my paycheck regardless of my membership and I was harassed by the steward and other union workers for not wanting to join the union. As far as I could tell the only benefit offered was a guaranteed $0.25/hr raise every year I stayed at a company where I was not intending to remain employed any longer than necessary, and the downside was they effectively took $0.17/hr off my wage to cover the union dues. I'm sure if I'd planned to work at a grocery store until I was 40, the union would have been of great benefit, but since I had an intention to go into tech as soon as possible and leave the small town I grew up in, it wasn't of much benefit to me. Meanwhile, I was exposed to the grift, drug use, theft, corruption, and underhanded tactics that the union members used, sometimes in direct furtherance of stated union objectives. Based on the hearsay of family experiences with unions, this seems commonplace, at least in the US. Unions had mob ties back in the day, and they still exist primarily as racketeering organizations, but on more legal footing. I don't consider them anything like an insurance company and my relationship to them as an employee would be nothing like my relationship to an insurance company as a customer. Nothing I am saying here in any way defends Amazon's heinous actions. I believe that employees absolutely have a right to unionize and that unions can also provide necessary and essential functions to protect workers. But they are not perfect, and it's not hard for me to imagine the experiences others have had. You asked why so many people dislike unions... well there's why I dislike unions and would never join one myself.

bsanr 5y ago
>I'm sure if I'd planned to work at a grocery store until I was 40, the union would have been of great benefit This is an important point to consider, the malfeasance (which is a feature of poorly-run enterprises of all kinds, and not particular to nor characteristic of all unions) aside. Some people DO intend to continuously work jobs that are menial, but basic and necessary to the functioning of a community. The American economy has changed much in the past 50 years, 100 years, 150 years. Wrt your example, one thing has not: the necessity of human labor in the "last mile" of distributing food to consumers. That is to say, it has been possible for several generations to spend one's entire productive life in a such a role. Note here that we're not talking about protecting inefficient businesses or even specific jobs; we're talking about protecting the people who are happy to fill a necessary role without moving "up or out." We shouldn't have a problem with that in a country where we cut individuals - not their businesses - millions in tax credits. And in regards to change in the business environment as economies and technologies evolve: much as techies are loathe to admit it, successful and healthy change must happen on a human scale, without leaving people behind. Unions help to avoid the socialization of the costs of abrupt change.
komali2 5y ago
Based on your argument against unionizing yourself, which is that you won't benefit $0.25 yearly raise, I think you're actually arguing in favor of the insurance comparison. For example, if the only people who paid into national health insurance were the people needed it, and only then when they needed it, the national health insurance would be pointless.

bsanr 5y ago

>I'm sure if I'd planned to work at a grocery store until I was 40, the union would have been of great benefit This is an important point to consider, the malfeasance (which is a feature of poorly-run enterprises of all kinds, and not particular to nor characteristic of all unions) aside. Some people DO intend to continuously work jobs that are menial, but basic and necessary to the functioning of a community. The American economy has changed much in the past 50 years, 100 years, 150 years. Wrt your example, one thing has not: the necessity of human labor in the "last mile" of distributing food to consumers. That is to say, it has been possible for several generations to spend one's entire productive life in a such a role. Note here that we're not talking about protecting inefficient businesses or even specific jobs; we're talking about protecting the people who are happy to fill a necessary role without moving "up or out." We shouldn't have a problem with that in a country where we cut individuals - not their businesses - millions in tax credits. And in regards to change in the business environment as economies and technologies evolve: much as techies are loathe to admit it, successful and healthy change must happen on a human scale, without leaving people behind. Unions help to avoid the socialization of the costs of abrupt change.

komali2 5y ago

Based on your argument against unionizing yourself, which is that you won't benefit $0.25 yearly raise, I think you're actually arguing in favor of the insurance comparison. For example, if the only people who paid into national health insurance were the people needed it, and only then when they needed it, the national health insurance would be pointless.