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> These people and their products (and their communication channels) need to be turned off ASAP for everyone else's sanity and self-preservation But they can't

by dcow 5y ago

> These people and their products (and their communication channels) need to be turned off ASAP for everyone else's sanity and self-preservation But they can't be because enough people don't share your worldview. Do you believe private communication is a human right? Well then you can't stop them communicating either. How would we achieve a world where these products and services could be universally banned immediately? You are right, the problem is ethics. The problem is that it's not universally criminal to attack other countries' wealth. If it came out that this group ran their infrastructure on IBM cloud, and you still worked at IBM, what would you do? It seems you think that the generation of wealth for IBM's shareholders is more important stopping genocide therefore it's okay to be complicit. So you seem to have some general notion of ethical total harm. > The idea that terrorism (and black hat hacking is absolutely a form of terrorism) is a useful way to change corporate behavior is so ill-informed that it's pathetic. It does change behavior, though, whether you like it or not.

mimixco 5y ago
I certainly can't argue that you're wrong! Private communication, even for business, is a human right. I was not suggesting that some authoritarian arm "shut them off," but rather that a profusion of businesses and individuals simply chose to ignore them. Death by recission. It's also one's right to choose to be in an ethical business or not. I've rejected many customers and employers because I didn't want to help in their aims. I was among the people who protested IBM's continued involvement in apartheid and it did end before I left. Companies can chose to "not be evil" or they can just say that. And yes, sadly, everything changes human behavior. What I was going for is that ethics is a practical phenomenon as well as nice one for other people. I still believe that more can be accomplished through volunteerism (including volunteer agreements about money and work rather than coercive ones) than through violence. Perhaps that's naive or hopeful but I hope a few of us persist in keeping the idea alive.

by dcow 5y ago

mimixco 5y ago

I certainly can't argue that you're wrong! Private communication, even for business, is a human right. I was not suggesting that some authoritarian arm "shut them off," but rather that a profusion of businesses and individuals simply chose to ignore them. Death by recission. It's also one's right to choose to be in an ethical business or not. I've rejected many customers and employers because I didn't want to help in their aims. I was among the people who protested IBM's continued involvement in apartheid and it did end before I left. Companies can chose to "not be evil" or they can just say that. And yes, sadly, everything changes human behavior. What I was going for is that ethics is a practical phenomenon as well as nice one for other people. I still believe that more can be accomplished through volunteerism (including volunteer agreements about money and work rather than coercive ones) than through violence. Perhaps that's naive or hopeful but I hope a few of us persist in keeping the idea alive.