7 ms·

This may sound a bit weird but haven't you noticed they all are psychopaths? Although high functioning ones. Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezoz... These ar

This may sound a bit weird but haven't you noticed they all are psychopaths? Although high functioning ones. Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezoz... These are not healthy people mentally. But they are rich and powerful.

m12k 5y ago
See also https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...
andi999 5y ago
Gates seems pretty normal to me.
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  He's gone out of his way to cultivate that image.
  - rglover 5y ago
    You mean the well-timed documentary humanizing him as a caring genius just before all this started was intentional?! Nah...
  - chaostheory 5y ago
    Even before the Epstein scandal, there were hints of it old personality like when he claimed in Steve Job's biography that Next OS had no role or association with the creation of OSX (now Mac OS); hinting that Jobs was hired back on the board's whim.
  - SmellTheGlove 5y ago
    There was a couple year span on Reddit where you'd see a couple of really positive Bill Gates posts each day. At a glance it seemed organic, but people were always in the comments suggesting it was great PR. Seems like they were probably right.
  - peakaboo 5y ago
    The Netflix documentary about Bill Gates... Watch that. It's a very fine piece of propaganda and what makes it work. Excellent study material if you are interested in what makes people believe something.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  Read some early MS company stories.
  - krick 5y ago
    Gladly. Perhaps you could link some of them?
    - tluyben2 5y ago
      Google shows enough I guess but things like [0] and [1] but there are quite a few books describing it all in more detail and he has talked about it himself [2] (not only here). [0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/gates-ruthless-schemer-says-his-microsoft-co-founder-2257843.html%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/peop... [1] https://www.ceotodaymagazine.com/2021/01/leadership-styles-and-do-they-work-bill-gatess-flame-mails/ https://www.ceotodaymagazine.com/2021/01/leadership-styles-a... [2] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-microsoft-culture-self-selected-males-went-too-far-2019-7%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/bill-ga...
- rebelos 5y ago
  Gates was a ruthless tyrant in his Microsoft days. He worked very hard to rehab his image after leaving. Work that might be completely undone if the nature of his alleged involvement with Epstein and the reprehensible things that may have entailed ever surface. He appears to have lost his wife because of the cloud of suspicion there.
  - tekproxy 5y ago
    Ruthless brilliant maniacal tyrant. For more context, there's this famous story: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/06/16/my-first-billg-review/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/06/16/my-first-billg-rev...
    - andi999 5y ago
      Interesting read. What part seems problematic to you?
- socialist_pig 5y ago
  Check out the recent Epstein case evidences that points to Gates being a close friend with Epstein, he was even in discussions to have Epstein be part of the Bill and Melinda Gate Foundation, in order to clear his public image
tluyben2 5y ago
Not weird, you need something different in you to govern over many lives (employees & families, but this is no different than kings, dictators, presidents etc); this is probably more psychopath or sociopath than we are used to normally. How can you take decisions over 10000s+ of people's lives if you are a sane person?
treeman79 5y ago
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/08/the-science-behind-why-so-many-successful-millionaires-are-psychopaths-and-why-it-doesnt-have-to-be-a-bad-thing.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/08/the-science-behind-why-so-ma... I, and many scholars, would argue that traits for a successful CEO are about the same as a criminal. Great many are not often good men.
tinco 5y ago
They're not psychopaths, they're just disconnected from your perspective. They've got other stuff on their mind and it's hard for them to put themselves in your shoes. Are you a psychopath for driving your car for a holiday trip, even though there's people dying in 49 degrees heat in Greece? It's really not that different from Jeff Bezos flying his spacecraft. Not that I'm saying it's ok, obviously Bezos's company is operating in real scummy ways. I'm just saying it's not a sure sign of psychopathy. Frankly, I don't think being a psychopath is compatible with their achievements, but I'm no psychologist. Also, they're not that powerful. People keep saying this as if they're somehow super powerful because there's a big number next to their name on the Forbes list. 90% of their assets are tied up in stocks that they're not gonna sell soon. Bill Gates couldn't eradicate polio because some broke warlords in Afghanistan started propaganda against him. It took Jeff Bezos 20 years before his spacecraft did anything semi useful, and he still can't land a deal with NASA. If he really is a psycho, why was Zuckerberg so nervous at his senate hearing?
- tluyben2 5y ago
  Don't think they are generally psychopaths, but they need to have some (most of them as I see the 'rules' on Google that make you a psychopath) tendencies that would rank high on the list. You explain it with having a lot on their minds and that's a positive spin; the other explanation is that they are just humans and they just do whatever they are driven to by their vision trampling over whatever in their way in any way possible because they work that way and they have the money to do so.
- uniqueid 5y ago
  My comment is tabloid-level and I'm not a psychologist. That disclaimed, it wouldn't surprise me if Elon Musk is a psychopath; it sounds like his father's personality would not benefit a child's mental health https://www.thelist.com/406823/what-we-know-about-elon-musks-father/ https://www.thelist.com/406823/what-we-know-about-elon-musks...
- HWR_14 5y ago
  > 90% of their assets are tied up in stocks that they're not gonna sell soon. How is that at all relevant? Name one thing any of them cannot buy just because the vast majority of their wealth is invested. Bezos was putting a billion a quarter into Blue Origin - yes that's a small percentage of his wealth but there's no reason to assume more money would have gone faster.
Pyramus 5y ago
Let me add that you can be both a genius, super smart and creative person - and also be a sociopath/psychopath. Also add Jobs and many successful surgeons (or so I am told) to the list.
fsloth 5y ago
You don't have to be callous to be a psycopath. And you don't need to be a psycopath to be callous. If you think someone is an a-hole, call the person an a-hole. Please leave diagnostics for professionals. Musk said he is in the asperger spectrum. Among other things, it generally makes you not care what other think about you. And may lead to behaviour that is "acted" because all social interactions may be a difficult exercise. Humans are complex and deep. And sometimes awful. There are more dimensions to a person than a good/bad guy or psycho/normal. And with asperger - neurological diversity expands this space in ways it makes it very hard for neurotypicals to intuitively tell what the hell is going on. Nobody is excused for bad manners. But not having any would not make person a psychopath.
- outworlder 5y ago
  > Please leave diagnostics for professionals. > asperger spectrum This is no longer recognized in the DSM-5.
  - wombatpm 5y ago
    But it was in DSM-IV. Are all of those people now cured?
    - outworlder 5y ago
      No. But isn't it ironic for someone to complain about armchair psychologists and then start talking about a condition that's not even recognized anymore? DSM-5 replaced everything with autism spectrum disorder.
      - chevill 5y ago
        And to elaborate on this the explanation I read stated that with DSM-IV you had a bunch of specific disorders with their respective checklists of symptoms which didn't accurately reflect variations between individuals and the overlapping symptoms. (Since its a spectrum). This led to situations where people didn't check enough boxes to be eligible for certain treatments that might benefit them because they were associated with a slightly different diagnosis than the one they had.
outworlder 5y ago
> This may sound a bit weird but haven't you noticed they all are psychopaths? Easier to get to the top - and stay there - if you don't care about anything (or anyone) else. Even better if you can do so while projecting a different image. This may not be true for all CEOs. If you choose only the billionaires as examples, there could be some selection bias at play.
Niglodonicus 5y ago
You have to be at least a little bit of a psychopath to hoard that much wealth and justify it to yourself that you deserve it and the cockroaches at the bottom of society that you took it from don't.

m12k 5y ago

See also https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...

andi999 5y ago

Gates seems pretty normal to me.

UncleOxidant 5y ago
He's gone out of his way to cultivate that image.
- rglover 5y ago
  You mean the well-timed documentary humanizing him as a caring genius just before all this started was intentional?! Nah...
- chaostheory 5y ago
  Even before the Epstein scandal, there were hints of it old personality like when he claimed in Steve Job's biography that Next OS had no role or association with the creation of OSX (now Mac OS); hinting that Jobs was hired back on the board's whim.
- SmellTheGlove 5y ago
  There was a couple year span on Reddit where you'd see a couple of really positive Bill Gates posts each day. At a glance it seemed organic, but people were always in the comments suggesting it was great PR. Seems like they were probably right.
- peakaboo 5y ago
  The Netflix documentary about Bill Gates... Watch that. It's a very fine piece of propaganda and what makes it work. Excellent study material if you are interested in what makes people believe something.
tluyben2 5y ago
Read some early MS company stories.
- krick 5y ago
  Gladly. Perhaps you could link some of them?
  - tluyben2 5y ago
    Google shows enough I guess but things like [0] and [1] but there are quite a few books describing it all in more detail and he has talked about it himself [2] (not only here). [0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/gates-ruthless-schemer-says-his-microsoft-co-founder-2257843.html%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/peop... [1] https://www.ceotodaymagazine.com/2021/01/leadership-styles-and-do-they-work-bill-gatess-flame-mails/ https://www.ceotodaymagazine.com/2021/01/leadership-styles-a... [2] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-microsoft-culture-self-selected-males-went-too-far-2019-7%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/bill-ga...
rebelos 5y ago
Gates was a ruthless tyrant in his Microsoft days. He worked very hard to rehab his image after leaving. Work that might be completely undone if the nature of his alleged involvement with Epstein and the reprehensible things that may have entailed ever surface. He appears to have lost his wife because of the cloud of suspicion there.
- tekproxy 5y ago
  Ruthless brilliant maniacal tyrant. For more context, there's this famous story: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/06/16/my-first-billg-review/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/06/16/my-first-billg-rev...
  - andi999 5y ago
    Interesting read. What part seems problematic to you?
socialist_pig 5y ago
Check out the recent Epstein case evidences that points to Gates being a close friend with Epstein, he was even in discussions to have Epstein be part of the Bill and Melinda Gate Foundation, in order to clear his public image

tluyben2 5y ago

Not weird, you need something different in you to govern over many lives (employees & families, but this is no different than kings, dictators, presidents etc); this is probably more psychopath or sociopath than we are used to normally. How can you take decisions over 10000s+ of people's lives if you are a sane person?

treeman79 5y ago

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/08/the-science-behind-why-so-many-successful-millionaires-are-psychopaths-and-why-it-doesnt-have-to-be-a-bad-thing.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/08/the-science-behind-why-so-ma... I, and many scholars, would argue that traits for a successful CEO are about the same as a criminal. Great many are not often good men.

tinco 5y ago

They're not psychopaths, they're just disconnected from your perspective. They've got other stuff on their mind and it's hard for them to put themselves in your shoes. Are you a psychopath for driving your car for a holiday trip, even though there's people dying in 49 degrees heat in Greece? It's really not that different from Jeff Bezos flying his spacecraft. Not that I'm saying it's ok, obviously Bezos's company is operating in real scummy ways. I'm just saying it's not a sure sign of psychopathy. Frankly, I don't think being a psychopath is compatible with their achievements, but I'm no psychologist. Also, they're not that powerful. People keep saying this as if they're somehow super powerful because there's a big number next to their name on the Forbes list. 90% of their assets are tied up in stocks that they're not gonna sell soon. Bill Gates couldn't eradicate polio because some broke warlords in Afghanistan started propaganda against him. It took Jeff Bezos 20 years before his spacecraft did anything semi useful, and he still can't land a deal with NASA. If he really is a psycho, why was Zuckerberg so nervous at his senate hearing?

tluyben2 5y ago
Don't think they are generally psychopaths, but they need to have some (most of them as I see the 'rules' on Google that make you a psychopath) tendencies that would rank high on the list. You explain it with having a lot on their minds and that's a positive spin; the other explanation is that they are just humans and they just do whatever they are driven to by their vision trampling over whatever in their way in any way possible because they work that way and they have the money to do so.
uniqueid 5y ago
My comment is tabloid-level and I'm not a psychologist. That disclaimed, it wouldn't surprise me if Elon Musk is a psychopath; it sounds like his father's personality would not benefit a child's mental health https://www.thelist.com/406823/what-we-know-about-elon-musks-father/ https://www.thelist.com/406823/what-we-know-about-elon-musks...
HWR_14 5y ago
> 90% of their assets are tied up in stocks that they're not gonna sell soon. How is that at all relevant? Name one thing any of them cannot buy just because the vast majority of their wealth is invested. Bezos was putting a billion a quarter into Blue Origin - yes that's a small percentage of his wealth but there's no reason to assume more money would have gone faster.

Pyramus 5y ago

Let me add that you can be both a genius, super smart and creative person - and also be a sociopath/psychopath. Also add Jobs and many successful surgeons (or so I am told) to the list.

fsloth 5y ago

You don't have to be callous to be a psycopath. And you don't need to be a psycopath to be callous. If you think someone is an a-hole, call the person an a-hole. Please leave diagnostics for professionals. Musk said he is in the asperger spectrum. Among other things, it generally makes you not care what other think about you. And may lead to behaviour that is "acted" because all social interactions may be a difficult exercise. Humans are complex and deep. And sometimes awful. There are more dimensions to a person than a good/bad guy or psycho/normal. And with asperger - neurological diversity expands this space in ways it makes it very hard for neurotypicals to intuitively tell what the hell is going on. Nobody is excused for bad manners. But not having any would not make person a psychopath.

outworlder 5y ago
> Please leave diagnostics for professionals. > asperger spectrum This is no longer recognized in the DSM-5.
- wombatpm 5y ago
  But it was in DSM-IV. Are all of those people now cured?
  - outworlder 5y ago
    No. But isn't it ironic for someone to complain about armchair psychologists and then start talking about a condition that's not even recognized anymore? DSM-5 replaced everything with autism spectrum disorder.
    - chevill 5y ago
      And to elaborate on this the explanation I read stated that with DSM-IV you had a bunch of specific disorders with their respective checklists of symptoms which didn't accurately reflect variations between individuals and the overlapping symptoms. (Since its a spectrum). This led to situations where people didn't check enough boxes to be eligible for certain treatments that might benefit them because they were associated with a slightly different diagnosis than the one they had.

outworlder 5y ago

> This may sound a bit weird but haven't you noticed they all are psychopaths? Easier to get to the top - and stay there - if you don't care about anything (or anyone) else. Even better if you can do so while projecting a different image. This may not be true for all CEOs. If you choose only the billionaires as examples, there could be some selection bias at play.

Niglodonicus 5y ago

You have to be at least a little bit of a psychopath to hoard that much wealth and justify it to yourself that you deserve it and the cockroaches at the bottom of society that you took it from don't.