5 ms·

Is it? I personally think it makes more sense there, it replaces the eject button (is that an eject symbol? It's been a while since I've had to care about eject

Is it? I personally think it makes more sense there, it replaces the eject button (is that an eject symbol? It's been a while since I've had to care about eject) – and it matches the button position on the laptops, e.g. above the backspace button.

SmellTheGlove 5y ago
It’s in the top right corner on every other device that has one though. If I’m reaching for it that’s just where I expect it to be. The downvotes clearly indicate an unpopular opinion, but this to me just looks like they bolted on a 10 key to the existing product.
- jsjohnst 5y ago
  > The downvotes clearly indicate an unpopular opinion That's one conclusion. Could also be your attitude / way you expressed your opinion too. ;)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - SmellTheGlove 5y ago
    > That's one conclusion. Could also be your attitude / way you expressed your opinion too. ;) Maybe, but I'm generally not a jerk around here, I just really don't like this design and expressed it. It really does hit me as shockingly bad. Like "why did they do that?" bad. That others like it as much as I hate it is a real surprise to me, but that's life.
    - jsjohnst 5y ago
      > I'm generally not a jerk around here Scanning over your recent comment history, I agree with you. I wouldn’t even say the comment in question was jerk like, but rather hyperbolicly negative. You were essentially damning an entire company over a keyboard button position you disagreed with. We get it, you think it should always be far top right. I definitely see your point of view, but I can also see the point of view where they put it. I’m undecided which is better, but that doesn’t change the fact saying their entire design team sucks over that might be going to far. As someone who easily gets fired up with passion when I dislike something, I completely empathize. That’s why sometimes you need to take a breadth before posting.
- filoleg 5y ago
  To be more precise, it is right above the backspace/delete key on every other device that has one. So they decided to stay consistent and put it in the exact same spot here too. When you make an extended version of a keyboard, it makes sense to me to stay consistent and not rearrange keys on the part of the keyboard that's shared between the extended and regular-sized versions.
  - SmellTheGlove 5y ago
    > To be more precise, it is right above the backspace/delete key on every other device that has one. So they decided to stay consistent and put it in the exact same spot here too. Is it really more precise to say above the backspace/delete vs. the absolute top right corner? Until this product rolled out, those statements would have been practically equivalent. I'm thinking of this like I do the power button. On my Macbooks, that's one and the same with touchid, and is in the top right corner (and yeah, above the delete key, but for me the significance is the absolute position). The power button on my non-Apple keyboards is also in the top right, above the numpad - albeit not a touch sensor as well. Not where the eject key is, but in the absolute top right on the old Logitech Wave I'm typing on right now. Quite honestly, I didn't expect I'd be in the minority on this one. I suppose this is why design teams exist. I wonder if there's a better spoken version of me at Apple arguing like an asshole for the exact same thing!
    - filoleg 5y ago
      > Is it really more precise to say above the backspace/delete vs. the absolute top right corner? Yes, because that specifies the position of the key in all keyboards, no matter what extra keys they might have. If your keyboard doesn't have an F-button row, then your numerical row is at the very top of the keyboard. If your keyboard has an F-button row, then your numerical row is the second row from the top. But in reality, it is in the exact same place it has always been, right above the the QWERTY row. We don't shift the numerical row to the top when we add an F-button row. Neither do we shift arrow keys or Enter key to the far right when we add a numpad. So I don't see why touch ID button should behave any differently. In general, extended versions of keyboards add more stuff compared to the smaller versions, but they never mess with the layout of buttons present in the original.
- gumby 5y ago
  > just looks like they bolted on a 10 key to the existing product. Isn’t that precisely what an extended keyboard is?
NikolaNovak 5y ago
There's more than one way to look for consistency: in terms of key it was next to, or overall position on physical item. In other words: "It was above delete button" vs "It was in top right corner of the device" From my personal usability perspective, FWIW, there's a difference between "Go to physical corner of a device" and "hunt for a very specific place in the middle of keyboard", but preferences differ.
- nomel 5y ago
  My muscle memory wants things to stay where they are relative to one another. With it at the top right extreme, I would have to remember which computer I was at, since that location changes relative to all other keys.
  - NikolaNovak 5y ago
    Shows again how different people are :) I suppose it depends what your muscle memory is coded to? To me, muscle memory would be coded to "find top right extreme of device, then back off a little". I suppose yours night be "find delete key, go a bit above" or "this far from home row". (normally home row might be what I'd key too as well, but turning on and fingerprinting device is typically before I settle on home key in my workflow - I. E. I might not even be fully sat down...)

SmellTheGlove 5y ago

It’s in the top right corner on every other device that has one though. If I’m reaching for it that’s just where I expect it to be. The downvotes clearly indicate an unpopular opinion, but this to me just looks like they bolted on a 10 key to the existing product.

jsjohnst 5y ago
> The downvotes clearly indicate an unpopular opinion That's one conclusion. Could also be your attitude / way you expressed your opinion too. ;)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- SmellTheGlove 5y ago
  > That's one conclusion. Could also be your attitude / way you expressed your opinion too. ;) Maybe, but I'm generally not a jerk around here, I just really don't like this design and expressed it. It really does hit me as shockingly bad. Like "why did they do that?" bad. That others like it as much as I hate it is a real surprise to me, but that's life.
  - jsjohnst 5y ago
    > I'm generally not a jerk around here Scanning over your recent comment history, I agree with you. I wouldn’t even say the comment in question was jerk like, but rather hyperbolicly negative. You were essentially damning an entire company over a keyboard button position you disagreed with. We get it, you think it should always be far top right. I definitely see your point of view, but I can also see the point of view where they put it. I’m undecided which is better, but that doesn’t change the fact saying their entire design team sucks over that might be going to far. As someone who easily gets fired up with passion when I dislike something, I completely empathize. That’s why sometimes you need to take a breadth before posting.
filoleg 5y ago
To be more precise, it is right above the backspace/delete key on every other device that has one. So they decided to stay consistent and put it in the exact same spot here too. When you make an extended version of a keyboard, it makes sense to me to stay consistent and not rearrange keys on the part of the keyboard that's shared between the extended and regular-sized versions.
- SmellTheGlove 5y ago
  > To be more precise, it is right above the backspace/delete key on every other device that has one. So they decided to stay consistent and put it in the exact same spot here too. Is it really more precise to say above the backspace/delete vs. the absolute top right corner? Until this product rolled out, those statements would have been practically equivalent. I'm thinking of this like I do the power button. On my Macbooks, that's one and the same with touchid, and is in the top right corner (and yeah, above the delete key, but for me the significance is the absolute position). The power button on my non-Apple keyboards is also in the top right, above the numpad - albeit not a touch sensor as well. Not where the eject key is, but in the absolute top right on the old Logitech Wave I'm typing on right now. Quite honestly, I didn't expect I'd be in the minority on this one. I suppose this is why design teams exist. I wonder if there's a better spoken version of me at Apple arguing like an asshole for the exact same thing!
  - filoleg 5y ago
    > Is it really more precise to say above the backspace/delete vs. the absolute top right corner? Yes, because that specifies the position of the key in all keyboards, no matter what extra keys they might have. If your keyboard doesn't have an F-button row, then your numerical row is at the very top of the keyboard. If your keyboard has an F-button row, then your numerical row is the second row from the top. But in reality, it is in the exact same place it has always been, right above the the QWERTY row. We don't shift the numerical row to the top when we add an F-button row. Neither do we shift arrow keys or Enter key to the far right when we add a numpad. So I don't see why touch ID button should behave any differently. In general, extended versions of keyboards add more stuff compared to the smaller versions, but they never mess with the layout of buttons present in the original.
gumby 5y ago
> just looks like they bolted on a 10 key to the existing product. Isn’t that precisely what an extended keyboard is?

NikolaNovak 5y ago

There's more than one way to look for consistency: in terms of key it was next to, or overall position on physical item. In other words: "It was above delete button" vs "It was in top right corner of the device" From my personal usability perspective, FWIW, there's a difference between "Go to physical corner of a device" and "hunt for a very specific place in the middle of keyboard", but preferences differ.

nomel 5y ago
My muscle memory wants things to stay where they are relative to one another. With it at the top right extreme, I would have to remember which computer I was at, since that location changes relative to all other keys.
- NikolaNovak 5y ago
  Shows again how different people are :) I suppose it depends what your muscle memory is coded to? To me, muscle memory would be coded to "find top right extreme of device, then back off a little". I suppose yours night be "find delete key, go a bit above" or "this far from home row". (normally home row might be what I'd key too as well, but turning on and fingerprinting device is typically before I settle on home key in my workflow - I. E. I might not even be fully sat down...)