3 ms·

If YouTube’s algorithms radicalize people, it’s hard to tell from the data

23 points by m-watson 5y ago

m-watson 5y ago
A pre-print version: https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.12843 https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.12843 and their open science page: https://osf.io/vs4d9/ https://osf.io/vs4d9/
PaulHoule 5y ago
Baudrillard said that television has a "cooling" effect, that is it recasts citizens as consumers and dissuades political participation. If it does that for 9999 out of 10,000 people, the 1 person who is motivated to (say) drive their car into a crowd at a protest will disappear in the statistics.
ctoth 5y ago
But I know that Youtube radicalizes people because I read it[0] over[1] and[2] over[3] and[4] over[5] for[6] multiple[7] years[8]. [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/10/opinion/sunday/youtube-politics-radical.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/10/opinion/sunday/youtube-po... [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/reader-center/brazil-youtube-radicalization.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/reader-center/brazil-yout... [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/20/magazine/youtube-radicalization.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/20/magazine/youtube-radicali... [3]: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/technology/youtube-conspiracy-theories.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/technology/youtube-conspi... [4]: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/24/opinion/sunday/facebook-twitter-terrorism-extremism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/24/opinion/sunday/facebook-t... [5]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/02/technology/youtube-conspiracy-theory.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/02/technology/yo... [6]: https://www.nytimes.com/column/rabbit-hole https://www.nytimes.com/column/rabbit-hole [7]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/09/the-weekly/what-is-youtube-pushing-you-to-watch-next.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/09/the-weekly/what-is-youtub... [8]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/technology/youtube-online-extremism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/technology/youtube-online...
- rvz 5y ago
  Exactly. Tons of evidence supporting the fact that YouTube and other social media sites ARE radicalising people and have done so in the past by hosting it as well. [0] Not sure why it is so difficult to for Arstechnica to do basic research like you just did citing multiple articles from the same publisher source. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28035432 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28035432
  - theandrewbailey 5y ago
    Can't tell if sarcasm. (Assuming yes?) The New York Times has been targeting big tech for years, so of course they would write hit pieces on Youtube.
  - m-watson 5y ago
    There is absolutely evidence supporting the idea that YouTube and social media sites are contributing to the radicalization of people. This is not saying there is not evidence, it is reporting one one specific study that used a very specific method. It is worth reporting on specific studies/methods as well as doing over arching journalism on a topic. One piece does not discount another.
    - ctoth 5y ago
      I'd appreciate any links you have to this evidence. I also found this: > After conducting a detailed analysis of recommendations received by each channel type, we refute the popular radicalization claims. To the contrary, these data suggest that YouTube’s recommendation algorithm actively discourages viewers from visiting radicalizing or extremist content. Instead, the algorithm is shown to favor mainstream media and cable news content over independent YouTube channels with slant towards left-leaning or politically neutral channels. Our study thus suggests that YouTube’s recommendation algorithm fails to promote inflammatory or radicalized content, as previously claimed by several outlets. Here's a more accessible writeup[1]. [0]: View of Algorithmic extremism: Examining YouTube's rabbit hole of radicalization https://arxiv.org/abs/1912.11211 https://arxiv.org/abs/1912.11211 [1]: https://mark-ledwich.medium.com/youtube-radicalization-an-authoritative-saucy-story-28f73953ed17 https://mark-ledwich.medium.com/youtube-radicalization-an-au...
anonymouswacker 5y ago
cough cough manufacturing consent

23 points by m-watson 5y ago

A pre-print version: https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.12843 https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.12843 and their open science page: https://osf.io/vs4d9/ https://osf.io/vs4d9/

PaulHoule 5y ago

Baudrillard said that television has a "cooling" effect, that is it recasts citizens as consumers and dissuades political participation. If it does that for 9999 out of 10,000 people, the 1 person who is motivated to (say) drive their car into a crowd at a protest will disappear in the statistics.

ctoth 5y ago

But I know that Youtube radicalizes people because I read it[0] over[1] and[2] over[3] and[4] over[5] for[6] multiple[7] years[8]. [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/10/opinion/sunday/youtube-politics-radical.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/10/opinion/sunday/youtube-po... [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/reader-center/brazil-youtube-radicalization.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/reader-center/brazil-yout... [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/20/magazine/youtube-radicalization.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/20/magazine/youtube-radicali... [3]: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/technology/youtube-conspiracy-theories.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/technology/youtube-conspi... [4]: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/24/opinion/sunday/facebook-twitter-terrorism-extremism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/24/opinion/sunday/facebook-t... [5]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/02/technology/youtube-conspiracy-theory.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/02/technology/yo... [6]: https://www.nytimes.com/column/rabbit-hole https://www.nytimes.com/column/rabbit-hole [7]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/09/the-weekly/what-is-youtube-pushing-you-to-watch-next.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/09/the-weekly/what-is-youtub... [8]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/technology/youtube-online-extremism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/technology/youtube-online...

rvz 5y ago
Exactly. Tons of evidence supporting the fact that YouTube and other social media sites ARE radicalising people and have done so in the past by hosting it as well. [0] Not sure why it is so difficult to for Arstechnica to do basic research like you just did citing multiple articles from the same publisher source. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28035432 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28035432
- theandrewbailey 5y ago
  Can't tell if sarcasm. (Assuming yes?) The New York Times has been targeting big tech for years, so of course they would write hit pieces on Youtube.
- m-watson 5y ago
  There is absolutely evidence supporting the idea that YouTube and social media sites are contributing to the radicalization of people. This is not saying there is not evidence, it is reporting one one specific study that used a very specific method. It is worth reporting on specific studies/methods as well as doing over arching journalism on a topic. One piece does not discount another.
  - ctoth 5y ago
    I'd appreciate any links you have to this evidence. I also found this: > After conducting a detailed analysis of recommendations received by each channel type, we refute the popular radicalization claims. To the contrary, these data suggest that YouTube’s recommendation algorithm actively discourages viewers from visiting radicalizing or extremist content. Instead, the algorithm is shown to favor mainstream media and cable news content over independent YouTube channels with slant towards left-leaning or politically neutral channels. Our study thus suggests that YouTube’s recommendation algorithm fails to promote inflammatory or radicalized content, as previously claimed by several outlets. Here's a more accessible writeup[1]. [0]: View of Algorithmic extremism: Examining YouTube's rabbit hole of radicalization https://arxiv.org/abs/1912.11211 https://arxiv.org/abs/1912.11211 [1]: https://mark-ledwich.medium.com/youtube-radicalization-an-authoritative-saucy-story-28f73953ed17 https://mark-ledwich.medium.com/youtube-radicalization-an-au...

anonymouswacker 5y ago

cough cough manufacturing consent