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There's only so much juice you can squeeze out of a shrinking workforce, though. And as retirees continue to make up a larger portion of the popular vote - the

There's only so much juice you can squeeze out of a shrinking workforce, though. And as retirees continue to make up a larger portion of the popular vote - they'll continue to demand more from a shrinking workforce. At some point (I imagine in my lifetime) - the straw will break the camel's back.

csomar 5y ago
> And as retirees continue to make up a larger portion of the popular vote - they'll continue to demand more from a shrinking workforce. Sure, if you fail to outsource to other countries; or automate your economy enough. > There's only so much juice you can squeeze out of a shrinking workforce, though. For most countries, you can get access with a job offer. Countries are not against people who can get employment where they have shortages. But a "bare human" is barely employable which is how he turns into a liability. ie: immigrating more people (randomly) will generate a negative return at least in the short-term.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> There's only so much juice you can squeeze out of a shrinking workforce, though. For the developed world, where a lot of the wealth coming in is capital returns from global corps whose ability to generate wealth isn’t constrained by local population size, that just means you need to tap that more effectively. It’s a problem for the payroll tax model of social support funding, perhaps, but unless you are emotionally attached to that model, I don't see that as a big cost.
- Retric 5y ago
  Yes, similarly retiree savings isn’t limited to your economy. A country could have a continuous stream of goods imported that’s supported by past investments, which is more or less the goal of sovereign wealth funds. However, it requires great long term management making the system overall less stable.
slothtrop 5y ago
Automation is progressing faster than new 'types' of jobs are created. In many sectors they'll be poised to be oversaturated with workers. Owners are happy to remove the human element wherever reasonably possible.
- spothedog1 5y ago
  Except the US has a large labor shortage that predates covid in construction, agriculture, domestic work, scientists, engineers and more. If automation comes then great but the basic principals of more people in an economy means more demand for goods and services still applies.
  - slothtrop 5y ago
    Pay more and the labor shortage will disappear. Every industry exploiting temporary visas or undocumented workers claims there's a shortage.
  - idiotsecant 5y ago
    There is no labor shortage. When wages increase in all those areas those labor 'shortages' mysteriously end.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Except the US has a large labor shortage No, it has less labor supplied at current prices than purchasers would prefer. Market clearing quantity at current prices being less than buyers would prefer is...the normal case of a market economy. It's only a shortage if buyers paying more wouldn't increase market clearing quantity, because of some constraint besides “you haven't offered enough money to convince more people to sell their labor”.
    - rossjudson 5y ago
      I agree with you. The critical question here is, on a broad scale, whether the competitiveness of the American economy depends on lack of choice for low-wage workers. Example: The health insurance system reduces choice for workers, who are legitimately terrified of losing healthcare.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sandworm101 5y ago
>> juice you can squeeze out of a shrinking workforce On the assumption that the economy is based on a workforce. An economy can be based on paper assets. An "innovation nation" that makes GDP out of intellectual property assets, banking and offshore investments could sustain itself without the need for an ever-growing labor force. SK isn't Luxembourg, but nor is it India. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Luxembourg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Luxembourg
- luckylion 5y ago
  As a tax haven, Luxembourg depends on France + Germany's tolerance for tax evasion though. Granted, it has worked out great for them, but it's not necessarily a long-term strategy.
jimbob45 5y ago
I hate this viewpoint. It makes it seem like retirees are a nefarious bunch who are taking advantage of youngsters. In reality, age discrimination makes it nigh impossible to land a meaningful job once you're over the age of 60.
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  Agree that age discrimination is a big, complicating factor. Saw this impact a very qualified family member who had to tap some connections in their network of past coworkers just to find a mediocre role. (They're massively over qualified.) I think another reason for some negative feelings is the appearance that some generations have pulled up the ladder after their accent: in real estate, pensions, healthcare, etc.

csomar 5y ago

> And as retirees continue to make up a larger portion of the popular vote - they'll continue to demand more from a shrinking workforce. Sure, if you fail to outsource to other countries; or automate your economy enough. > There's only so much juice you can squeeze out of a shrinking workforce, though. For most countries, you can get access with a job offer. Countries are not against people who can get employment where they have shortages. But a "bare human" is barely employable which is how he turns into a liability. ie: immigrating more people (randomly) will generate a negative return at least in the short-term.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> There's only so much juice you can squeeze out of a shrinking workforce, though. For the developed world, where a lot of the wealth coming in is capital returns from global corps whose ability to generate wealth isn’t constrained by local population size, that just means you need to tap that more effectively. It’s a problem for the payroll tax model of social support funding, perhaps, but unless you are emotionally attached to that model, I don't see that as a big cost.

Retric 5y ago
Yes, similarly retiree savings isn’t limited to your economy. A country could have a continuous stream of goods imported that’s supported by past investments, which is more or less the goal of sovereign wealth funds. However, it requires great long term management making the system overall less stable.

slothtrop 5y ago

Automation is progressing faster than new 'types' of jobs are created. In many sectors they'll be poised to be oversaturated with workers. Owners are happy to remove the human element wherever reasonably possible.

spothedog1 5y ago
Except the US has a large labor shortage that predates covid in construction, agriculture, domestic work, scientists, engineers and more. If automation comes then great but the basic principals of more people in an economy means more demand for goods and services still applies.
- slothtrop 5y ago
  Pay more and the labor shortage will disappear. Every industry exploiting temporary visas or undocumented workers claims there's a shortage.
- idiotsecant 5y ago
  There is no labor shortage. When wages increase in all those areas those labor 'shortages' mysteriously end.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Except the US has a large labor shortage No, it has less labor supplied at current prices than purchasers would prefer. Market clearing quantity at current prices being less than buyers would prefer is...the normal case of a market economy. It's only a shortage if buyers paying more wouldn't increase market clearing quantity, because of some constraint besides “you haven't offered enough money to convince more people to sell their labor”.
  - rossjudson 5y ago
    I agree with you. The critical question here is, on a broad scale, whether the competitiveness of the American economy depends on lack of choice for low-wage workers. Example: The health insurance system reduces choice for workers, who are legitimately terrified of losing healthcare.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

sandworm101 5y ago

>> juice you can squeeze out of a shrinking workforce On the assumption that the economy is based on a workforce. An economy can be based on paper assets. An "innovation nation" that makes GDP out of intellectual property assets, banking and offshore investments could sustain itself without the need for an ever-growing labor force. SK isn't Luxembourg, but nor is it India. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Luxembourg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Luxembourg

luckylion 5y ago
As a tax haven, Luxembourg depends on France + Germany's tolerance for tax evasion though. Granted, it has worked out great for them, but it's not necessarily a long-term strategy.

jimbob45 5y ago

I hate this viewpoint. It makes it seem like retirees are a nefarious bunch who are taking advantage of youngsters. In reality, age discrimination makes it nigh impossible to land a meaningful job once you're over the age of 60.

paulryanrogers 5y ago
Agree that age discrimination is a big, complicating factor. Saw this impact a very qualified family member who had to tap some connections in their network of past coworkers just to find a mediocre role. (They're massively over qualified.) I think another reason for some negative feelings is the appearance that some generations have pulled up the ladder after their accent: in real estate, pensions, healthcare, etc.