You're right that animals are not only treated inhumanely in CAFOs, I have seen that kind of thing too. Even simple things, like killing a chicken before cuttin

You're right that animals are not only treated inhumanely in CAFOs, I have seen that kind of thing too. Even simple things, like killing a chicken before cutting its throat seem to never cross some peoples' minds. It's a different problem that has to do with education and generally standards of living and I think in the end it all loops back to the main reason that some people lack basic education, not to mention many other material needs: capitalism, again (and now I sound like a broken record). But again that's not the case everywhere. It is possible to raise animals without causing unnecessary suffering and it does happen, around the world. I think we agree on the need, or the want even, to minimise suffering. Maybe we disagree on what that entails? I think that small-scale farming can achieve this, which of course means that much of the world will need to eat much less meat and even (gulp!) dairy products than currently. I don't agree that we're not part of the natural order, but that's a bigger conversation I think. Yeah, thanks for the level-headed discussion also.