4 ms·

We have no good leadership coming to right this ship. Biden is a bust and next time around we either get Trump or Kamala...I don't think any sane person would

We have no good leadership coming to right this ship. Biden is a bust and next time around we either get Trump or Kamala...I don't think any sane person would feel confident in either of them. The elite in this country caused this mess with China and they will end up finishing us off thanks to their election games. Maybe leadership at the top doesn't matter. There is the rest of the government, a huge organization of mostly unelected life term bureaucrats many of whom have probably seen the last cold war. They may end up saving us or China stumbles massively and their disadvantages(aging population, badly built infrastructure) bite them enough for us to survive.

mc32 5y ago
Looking back at the candidates we’ve had since Bush vs Clinton, the only one who I think saw this coming and would have mobilized against it was Ross Perot. Everyone else saw $$ in their eyes as the shiny potential in China froze them in place. Ross had money and didn’t care about upsetting industrialists. Most other politicians will give in to industrial and commercial interests even when they carry long term detriment to the economy and its people.
- nebula8804 5y ago
  I'll be honest, I wasn't around for Ross Perot but have read nice things. I think we don't even need the best leadership...just someone who is kinda courageous and somewhat competent. That plus all the good things the US has going for it might be enough to solve this crisis. We have had instances in the past of a black swan coming out of nowhere to save the day. Maybe this will happen again in 2024. As far as I can tell the Democrats don't have to choose Kamala although how often has the VP not gotten serious consideration in recent times? Especially when she is the establishment favorite? And while it would be nice to see Trump get knocked out in the primary, all signs point to him being too far ahead of any other republican to be knocked out. Just a sad situation all around that we have to hope for a pleasant surprise.
  - mc32 5y ago
    I don't see anyone either. Perhaps Bloomberg. He seems to have run NYC better than most. That said, he was on the finance side of things, not industrial, so I'm not sure how sympathetic he would be towards the interests of working class Americans. We need someone who understands capitalism and favors markets but also knows when to control the markets and not allow them to sell us under the table. Someone who understands their responsibility is the American economy and its people and not how well companies do in China or Indonesia or not. Yes, sure, we need foreign markets and they need us, but we should not cave in and let them limit what we can do in their country but then allow them to do as they will here. It has to have some reciprocity. We also need to take into account labor laws and environmental impact when assessing tariffs.
    - nebula8804 5y ago
      We have seen how Bloomberg performs under stress during the debates and his performance has left a lot to be desired. I don't see him entering politics ever again.
      - mc32 5y ago
        True. Although I thought he was trying to ‘wing it’ ala Trump, but he doesn’t have the same ability to shoot from the hip. He needs to prepare but not be robotic. How the hell did he win the NYC mayorship?
  - rayiner 5y ago
    If Democrats run Harris they will lose even against Trump. My mom, an immigrant who voted Democrat reflexively, has straight up said she won’t vote for her. My dad is enough of a Yellow Dog Democrat that he probably will vote for her, but he’s really hoping it doesn’t come to that. The media bubble around Harris is driving Democrats straight to the cliff. Minorities, who make up 40% of the party and are over represented in critical swing states, don’t like her. She was polling at mid-single digits among Black voters in the south (behind Biden, Sanders, and Warren) before she pulled out: https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/04/kamala-harris-black-voters-2020-075651 https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/04/kamala-harris-black.... She was polling around the same among Latinos in her home state of California. Apart from that, she’s a terrible retail politician. When I went to see the candidates speak in Iowa back in 2019, Elizabeth Warren stood around giving everyone hugs and taking selfies after the speeches were over. Harris, meanwhile, quickly retreated to her campaign bus to avoid having to shake hands and talk to people.
- thepangolino 5y ago
  I’m pretty sure Trump also had a big grudge against China. Yet he got blamed for his trade policy against China.
  - mc32 5y ago
    Yeah his problem was he wasn’t systematic. It was mostly impulse. He needed more focus and coordination (with allies, with industry).
  - nebula8804 5y ago
    He really had a great opportunity to make a positive impact. Yet like most of his actions, he did not plan things out and instead caused lasting damage. Courage without intelligence is not good leadership.
- WanderPanda 5y ago
  Why do you think it is only about the industrialists? I think it is mainly about consumers massively benefitting from the deflation in consumer electronics made in China. Edit: At this point I believe that cutting the cords to China would at least incur a 50% drop in purchasing power of the average consumer in the medium term.

mc32 5y ago

Looking back at the candidates we’ve had since Bush vs Clinton, the only one who I think saw this coming and would have mobilized against it was Ross Perot. Everyone else saw $$ in their eyes as the shiny potential in China froze them in place. Ross had money and didn’t care about upsetting industrialists. Most other politicians will give in to industrial and commercial interests even when they carry long term detriment to the economy and its people.

nebula8804 5y ago
I'll be honest, I wasn't around for Ross Perot but have read nice things. I think we don't even need the best leadership...just someone who is kinda courageous and somewhat competent. That plus all the good things the US has going for it might be enough to solve this crisis. We have had instances in the past of a black swan coming out of nowhere to save the day. Maybe this will happen again in 2024. As far as I can tell the Democrats don't have to choose Kamala although how often has the VP not gotten serious consideration in recent times? Especially when she is the establishment favorite? And while it would be nice to see Trump get knocked out in the primary, all signs point to him being too far ahead of any other republican to be knocked out. Just a sad situation all around that we have to hope for a pleasant surprise.
- mc32 5y ago
  I don't see anyone either. Perhaps Bloomberg. He seems to have run NYC better than most. That said, he was on the finance side of things, not industrial, so I'm not sure how sympathetic he would be towards the interests of working class Americans. We need someone who understands capitalism and favors markets but also knows when to control the markets and not allow them to sell us under the table. Someone who understands their responsibility is the American economy and its people and not how well companies do in China or Indonesia or not. Yes, sure, we need foreign markets and they need us, but we should not cave in and let them limit what we can do in their country but then allow them to do as they will here. It has to have some reciprocity. We also need to take into account labor laws and environmental impact when assessing tariffs.
  - nebula8804 5y ago
    We have seen how Bloomberg performs under stress during the debates and his performance has left a lot to be desired. I don't see him entering politics ever again.
    - mc32 5y ago
      True. Although I thought he was trying to ‘wing it’ ala Trump, but he doesn’t have the same ability to shoot from the hip. He needs to prepare but not be robotic. How the hell did he win the NYC mayorship?
- rayiner 5y ago
  If Democrats run Harris they will lose even against Trump. My mom, an immigrant who voted Democrat reflexively, has straight up said she won’t vote for her. My dad is enough of a Yellow Dog Democrat that he probably will vote for her, but he’s really hoping it doesn’t come to that. The media bubble around Harris is driving Democrats straight to the cliff. Minorities, who make up 40% of the party and are over represented in critical swing states, don’t like her. She was polling at mid-single digits among Black voters in the south (behind Biden, Sanders, and Warren) before she pulled out: https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/04/kamala-harris-black-voters-2020-075651 https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/04/kamala-harris-black.... She was polling around the same among Latinos in her home state of California. Apart from that, she’s a terrible retail politician. When I went to see the candidates speak in Iowa back in 2019, Elizabeth Warren stood around giving everyone hugs and taking selfies after the speeches were over. Harris, meanwhile, quickly retreated to her campaign bus to avoid having to shake hands and talk to people.
thepangolino 5y ago
I’m pretty sure Trump also had a big grudge against China. Yet he got blamed for his trade policy against China.
- mc32 5y ago
  Yeah his problem was he wasn’t systematic. It was mostly impulse. He needed more focus and coordination (with allies, with industry).
- nebula8804 5y ago
  He really had a great opportunity to make a positive impact. Yet like most of his actions, he did not plan things out and instead caused lasting damage. Courage without intelligence is not good leadership.
WanderPanda 5y ago
Why do you think it is only about the industrialists? I think it is mainly about consumers massively benefitting from the deflation in consumer electronics made in China. Edit: At this point I believe that cutting the cords to China would at least incur a 50% drop in purchasing power of the average consumer in the medium term.