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I have an observation to share: Many countries where almost no one can afford a healthy diet according to this sites also have high population growth rates. For

by baxtr 5y ago

I have an observation to share: Many countries where almost no one can afford a healthy diet according to this sites also have high population growth rates. For example, almost 96% of all people in Congo don't have enough money for healthy food, but the yearly growth rate is 3% or so. Do you think this is correlated? And if so, isn't this then a vicious cycle? EDIT: I'd really love to see an open discussion on this topic without a flame war or anything.

NonContro 5y ago
IQ is negatively correlated to fertility: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1972320 https://www.jstor.org/stable/1972320 The average IQ of the Congo population has been measured between 64-74: https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.1063.3595&rep=rep1&type=pdf https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.10... The fertility rate is 5.82: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?locations=CD https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?location... Population of the DRC: 1950: 12m 2000: 47m 2050: 194m 2100: 362m https://www.populationpyramid.net/democratic-republic-of-the-congo/2100/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/democratic-republic-of-the...
- tryingtogetback 5y ago
  Not sure why you are being downvoted. It's at very least plausible. The reasons for much lower birth rates in western (and westernized) cultures are education, security, and stability. Remove these and your primitive instincts like reproduction will start to dominate your life again (baby boomers as an example in US).
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    Somewhat true but there are also economic pressures on reproduction. Though I suppose you need some basic education to think that far ahead
sandworm101 5y ago
A different definition of health. Darwin would certainly call thier diet healthy enough. Any expanding population is at an evolutionary level more sucessfull than a stagnant population. Life expectancy, our modern concpet of health, is a very different story.
thaumasiotes 5y ago
> For example, almost 96% of all people in Congo don't have enough money for healthy food Does that... matter? How much do they rely on money to get food? Sub-Saharan Africa historically was a place where one woman working alone could support a household through horticulture.
- yorwba 5y ago
  "Income" in the calculation doesn't refer to just money. The author explicitly points out that food grown by subsistence farmers is included.
Panzer04 5y ago
Most countries with very high pop growth are coming out of more or less preindustrial conditions - subsistence farming, children needed to feed the parents in age, lack of access to contraception, just getting better medical care to do recent child deaths, etc.
blackoil 5y ago
Population Growth is highly correlated to girl's age at time of marriage, education and Infant Mortality rate. These factors are mostly worse in poor countries.
luismedel 5y ago
I have the feeling (based on my own observations, so take it with a grain of salt) that education level affects both birth control and healthy diet. Even in first world countries.
vidarh 5y ago
It's a vicious cycle, but historically what we've seen is that drops in birth rate follows economic growth, not vice versa. Poor economic conditions tends to mean parents rely on children for both work and for care in old age, and also correlates to lack of access to education on family planning as well as lack of access to contraceptives. There are arguments to be made about precise cause and effect, but this pattern has been known for a long time; pretty much every developed country went through it, and almost all developing countries are on their way through the same pattern (almost all have seen birth rates drop dramatically, to the point the world is heading towards dropping population numbers within the next century).
- rocknor 5y ago
  Yup. It's called demographic transition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition This is a great video explaining it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsBT5EQt348 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsBT5EQt348
deleted 5y ago
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by baxtr 5y ago

NonContro 5y ago

IQ is negatively correlated to fertility: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1972320 https://www.jstor.org/stable/1972320 The average IQ of the Congo population has been measured between 64-74: https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.1063.3595&rep=rep1&type=pdf https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.10... The fertility rate is 5.82: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?locations=CD https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?location... Population of the DRC: 1950: 12m 2000: 47m 2050: 194m 2100: 362m https://www.populationpyramid.net/democratic-republic-of-the-congo/2100/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/democratic-republic-of-the...

tryingtogetback 5y ago
Not sure why you are being downvoted. It's at very least plausible. The reasons for much lower birth rates in western (and westernized) cultures are education, security, and stability. Remove these and your primitive instincts like reproduction will start to dominate your life again (baby boomers as an example in US).
- rdtwo 5y ago
  Somewhat true but there are also economic pressures on reproduction. Though I suppose you need some basic education to think that far ahead

sandworm101 5y ago

A different definition of health. Darwin would certainly call thier diet healthy enough. Any expanding population is at an evolutionary level more sucessfull than a stagnant population. Life expectancy, our modern concpet of health, is a very different story.

thaumasiotes 5y ago

> For example, almost 96% of all people in Congo don't have enough money for healthy food Does that... matter? How much do they rely on money to get food? Sub-Saharan Africa historically was a place where one woman working alone could support a household through horticulture.

yorwba 5y ago
"Income" in the calculation doesn't refer to just money. The author explicitly points out that food grown by subsistence farmers is included.

Panzer04 5y ago

Most countries with very high pop growth are coming out of more or less preindustrial conditions - subsistence farming, children needed to feed the parents in age, lack of access to contraception, just getting better medical care to do recent child deaths, etc.

blackoil 5y ago

Population Growth is highly correlated to girl's age at time of marriage, education and Infant Mortality rate. These factors are mostly worse in poor countries.

luismedel 5y ago

I have the feeling (based on my own observations, so take it with a grain of salt) that education level affects both birth control and healthy diet. Even in first world countries.

vidarh 5y ago

It's a vicious cycle, but historically what we've seen is that drops in birth rate follows economic growth, not vice versa. Poor economic conditions tends to mean parents rely on children for both work and for care in old age, and also correlates to lack of access to education on family planning as well as lack of access to contraceptives. There are arguments to be made about precise cause and effect, but this pattern has been known for a long time; pretty much every developed country went through it, and almost all developing countries are on their way through the same pattern (almost all have seen birth rates drop dramatically, to the point the world is heading towards dropping population numbers within the next century).

rocknor 5y ago
Yup. It's called demographic transition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition This is a great video explaining it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsBT5EQt348 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsBT5EQt348

deleted 5y ago

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