5 ms·

Drug tests should be banned for most folks. Additionally: What is a trace amount after a weekend? Can you tell if someone smoked pot on Sunday rather than Mond

Drug tests should be banned for most folks. Additionally: What is a trace amount after a weekend? Can you tell if someone smoked pot on Sunday rather than Monday on a Wednesday drug test? Does it matter if it is a "heavy" drug (say, mushrooms?)? Does it matter that someone did a couple of lines of coke saturday rather than be drunk and high from Friday to Sunday?

qwerty456127 5y ago
> Can you tell if someone smoked pot on Sunday rather than Monday on a Wednesday drug test? I don't really know. I thought there would be difference in concentration. > Does it matter if it is a "heavy" drug (say, mushrooms?)? Mushrooms are not a hard drug. Fentanyl/heroine and crack are. > Does it matter that someone did a couple of lines of coke saturday rather than be drunk and high from Friday to Sunday? IMHO the second is worse.
- netizen-936824 5y ago
  There is no such thing as a "hard" or "heavy" drug. These terms are not in pharmacological literature and are not defined by any property of the chemical or their pharmacological action.
  - qwerty456127 5y ago
    Nevertheless it is rather easy to tell them apart. Hard drugs quickly cause heavy addiction in almost everybody who tries them, destroy their health and can even kill them easily. Psilocybin does not, it can actually be used to improve neural health and cure addictions (just search it here on HN, there are many papers to reference). There are things which are hard to define precisely nevertheless easy to distinguish intuitively.
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      I guess we can consider alcohol a hard drug then. Time to make it illegal? I don't know anybody who uses it responsibly, therefore those people don't exist right?
      - qwerty456127 5y ago
        I know many people who use alcohol responsibly and even people who use meth responsibly (it's great for heavy ADHD if you have enough willpower to only use tiny doses occasionally) but I seriously doubt there are many who use crack responsibly.
        netizen-936824 5y ago
        Believe it or not I have met people who use cocaine, in both salt and base (crack) forms, responsibly. Just because you don't know them doesn't mean they don't exist. Same with methamphetamine and heroin. Do you think Dr. Carl Hart uses heroin irresponsibly? You may want to look him up.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  I don't really know. I thought there would be difference in concentration. That concentration depends on the person: A person with more fat will show a higher concentration for a longer amount of time. If you don't smoke often, you might find that you get it out of your system rather fast. In short, tests aren't all that helpful with pot, and you won't realistically be able to tell if they smoked last night after work or last saturday during off time. > Does it matter if it is a "heavy" drug (say, mushrooms?)? Mushrooms are not a hard drug. Fentanyl/heroine and crack are. Mushrooms and LSD are classified that way by many folks, though - including the US government. Fentanyl isn't instantly addictive - if it were, they wouldn't use it in hospitals. People do heroine occasionally without being addicted, too (most folks don't shoot up). Same with cocaine. I don't know as much about crack, but there was a time when folks did meth on a more recreational basis instead of all the time (I've never personally done it, no desire). And that's the issue. "Hard" depends on some combination of use, effect, and what frequent use does. Regardless, plenty of people do "hard" drugs occasionally and you'll never know. And if it is better to you that someone do some cocaine - generally accepted as a hard, addictive drug (through propaganda) - than be drunk all weekend, in some ways, you already know this. A drug test isn't gonna help most of these, though.
BoxOfRain 5y ago
I'd outright refuse to work at a place that imposed them on principle, body integrity is one of my strongest-held values. There's enough creepy corporate manipulation of our private lives as it is, the only piss they'll get from me is a swift "piss off" and I'll work somewhere that respects personal boundaries.
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  Me too, but we are privileged to choose a job according to our preferences. Meanwhile, there are many people for whom it is way harder to find a better job in their life circumstances / places they live. Losing it can easily ruin their lives.
  - BoxOfRain 5y ago
    Yeah, I'm definitely aware it's a luxury to be able to turn down jobs and that this sector-specific good job market isn't going to last forever either. I really think we should ban drug testing in the vast majority of cases to protect people who are less fortunate from the ridiculous puritan corporate culture many places adopt. I can see a case for it in roles where heavy machinery or other potentially deadly outcomes are a possibility but for the overwhelming majority of jobs it's just controlling behaviour for the sake of being controlling in my opinion.
    - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
      Even the thin veil of "heavy machinery" isn't really enough: Your average factory worker deals with "heavy machinery" and trash compactors, commonly used in retail for boxes, are the same. Folks employed in these positions in other countries don't have drug tests and do not have bad safety records, so the danger isn't as high as the employer makes it out to be. I think employers should prove that there is either a federal mandate for drug testing the position OR that drug use, even outside of work, affects work.

qwerty456127 5y ago

> Can you tell if someone smoked pot on Sunday rather than Monday on a Wednesday drug test? I don't really know. I thought there would be difference in concentration. > Does it matter if it is a "heavy" drug (say, mushrooms?)? Mushrooms are not a hard drug. Fentanyl/heroine and crack are. > Does it matter that someone did a couple of lines of coke saturday rather than be drunk and high from Friday to Sunday? IMHO the second is worse.

netizen-936824 5y ago
There is no such thing as a "hard" or "heavy" drug. These terms are not in pharmacological literature and are not defined by any property of the chemical or their pharmacological action.
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  Nevertheless it is rather easy to tell them apart. Hard drugs quickly cause heavy addiction in almost everybody who tries them, destroy their health and can even kill them easily. Psilocybin does not, it can actually be used to improve neural health and cure addictions (just search it here on HN, there are many papers to reference). There are things which are hard to define precisely nevertheless easy to distinguish intuitively.
  - netizen-936824 5y ago
    I guess we can consider alcohol a hard drug then. Time to make it illegal? I don't know anybody who uses it responsibly, therefore those people don't exist right?
    - qwerty456127 5y ago
      I know many people who use alcohol responsibly and even people who use meth responsibly (it's great for heavy ADHD if you have enough willpower to only use tiny doses occasionally) but I seriously doubt there are many who use crack responsibly.
      - netizen-936824 5y ago
        Believe it or not I have met people who use cocaine, in both salt and base (crack) forms, responsibly. Just because you don't know them doesn't mean they don't exist. Same with methamphetamine and heroin. Do you think Dr. Carl Hart uses heroin irresponsibly? You may want to look him up.
Broken_Hippo 5y ago
I don't really know. I thought there would be difference in concentration. That concentration depends on the person: A person with more fat will show a higher concentration for a longer amount of time. If you don't smoke often, you might find that you get it out of your system rather fast. In short, tests aren't all that helpful with pot, and you won't realistically be able to tell if they smoked last night after work or last saturday during off time. > Does it matter if it is a "heavy" drug (say, mushrooms?)? Mushrooms are not a hard drug. Fentanyl/heroine and crack are. Mushrooms and LSD are classified that way by many folks, though - including the US government. Fentanyl isn't instantly addictive - if it were, they wouldn't use it in hospitals. People do heroine occasionally without being addicted, too (most folks don't shoot up). Same with cocaine. I don't know as much about crack, but there was a time when folks did meth on a more recreational basis instead of all the time (I've never personally done it, no desire). And that's the issue. "Hard" depends on some combination of use, effect, and what frequent use does. Regardless, plenty of people do "hard" drugs occasionally and you'll never know. And if it is better to you that someone do some cocaine - generally accepted as a hard, addictive drug (through propaganda) - than be drunk all weekend, in some ways, you already know this. A drug test isn't gonna help most of these, though.

BoxOfRain 5y ago

I'd outright refuse to work at a place that imposed them on principle, body integrity is one of my strongest-held values. There's enough creepy corporate manipulation of our private lives as it is, the only piss they'll get from me is a swift "piss off" and I'll work somewhere that respects personal boundaries.

qwerty456127 5y ago
Me too, but we are privileged to choose a job according to our preferences. Meanwhile, there are many people for whom it is way harder to find a better job in their life circumstances / places they live. Losing it can easily ruin their lives.
- BoxOfRain 5y ago
  Yeah, I'm definitely aware it's a luxury to be able to turn down jobs and that this sector-specific good job market isn't going to last forever either. I really think we should ban drug testing in the vast majority of cases to protect people who are less fortunate from the ridiculous puritan corporate culture many places adopt. I can see a case for it in roles where heavy machinery or other potentially deadly outcomes are a possibility but for the overwhelming majority of jobs it's just controlling behaviour for the sake of being controlling in my opinion.
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    Even the thin veil of "heavy machinery" isn't really enough: Your average factory worker deals with "heavy machinery" and trash compactors, commonly used in retail for boxes, are the same. Folks employed in these positions in other countries don't have drug tests and do not have bad safety records, so the danger isn't as high as the employer makes it out to be. I think employers should prove that there is either a federal mandate for drug testing the position OR that drug use, even outside of work, affects work.