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> and it’s taken them this long to learn how to quit an app, as opposed to simply closing its windows. Well that's the whole point: they shouldn't need to know

> and it’s taken them this long to learn how to quit an app, as opposed to simply closing its windows. Well that's the whole point: they shouldn't need to know the difference. The system should take care of that and beginning with Lion it will. > As another example, let’s say someone who’s never used Expose or Spaces accidentally activates Lion’s new full-screen feature in Safari. Apps that go full-screen create a new Space to live in, and, obviously, they fill the entire screen. I don’t know about your parents, but the phrase “how do I get out of this” rings in my head just thinking about it. So does the needlessly lengthy phone call that would follow. So you tell them "swipe left or right with three fingers" and then they'll know. Software doesn't need to be immediately and completely obvious to everyone in every situation. What's important is that basic concepts are universally applicable once they're learned. And keep in mind that discoverability does not mean every possible action needs to be visible at first sight. Swiping should become immediately clear once you fool around with the trackpad; the feedback is obvious, immediate and pleasant. > Use another app, and the same gesture could mean something completely different. I don't think the slight differences in the minutiae of swiping gestures (one finger, two fingers, three fingers,...) is that big of a deal. There is (or should be!) immediate feedback and the actions are always (or should always be!) nondestructive. It should not take long for anyone to figure things out. Granted, there is always the problem of especially older people being less... "playful" in how they approach new technology. Most often that stems from a fear of breaking things. Which is exactly why it's so great that we're finally on the right track with the latest trends towards "care-free" computing environments: autosave, unlimited undo, auto resume, automatic backup and synchronization etc.

astral303 15y ago
Computers are cruel beings. You do one little thing wrong and all your work is gone. After being punished so much, it's no wonder older people are less playful (or many people who we call 'non-tech-savvy' or 'computer illiterate'): they don't want to get burned again. Imagine you're working on a painting, and you have a cup of hot coffee sitting right next to it. You know that it's dangerous to keep that cup of coffee there and that a wrong flick of the wrist can ruin your work. So you get up and move that cup of coffee far away. Compare this to computers: there are all sorts of cups of coffee right within your "clumsiness distance," except these cups are hard to see at first. So if you accidentally ruin your work with a spill, the geeks will come yelling: "you should not have hit that cup off coffee!" "You should've known it was there!" Doesn't that sound ridiculous? Well, this describes years and years and years of web mail systems where you could accidentally close your window mid-e-mail and lose your work. GMail was the first e-mail provider to offer autosave as late as 2005, and, while I have no hard data to confirm, it was at least several years until Yahoo or Hotmail had that (and my paid e-mail provider Fastmail didn't have it until '09 or something like that).
Tichy 15y ago
"So you tell them "swipe left or right with three fingers" and then they'll know" I hope this is not the only way to get out of full screen mode? I think it would have been the last thing I tried. And there are a lot of things you can try - "three finger swipe" is completely arbitrary, after all. I've been using a Mac for two years now, but I never learned any gestures and I would be screwed if they became mandatory. I guess I am still stuck in the "basic Windows switcher mode".
- ugh 15y ago
  You can press ESC (which, I think, is universally the standard command for exiting full screen mode), you can mouse up to the menu bar and click the full screen button or you can use the shortcut that gets you into full screen mode to exit it again. I wouldn’t bother with gestures. I would tell my parents to press ESC. They know that button and they should already be aware that it is often used to exit full screen modes.
  - Tichy 15y ago
    ESC is fine and it makes sense to learn about it. As you say, it is pretty universal, whereas three finger swipe will only work on OS X.

astral303 15y ago

Computers are cruel beings. You do one little thing wrong and all your work is gone. After being punished so much, it's no wonder older people are less playful (or many people who we call 'non-tech-savvy' or 'computer illiterate'): they don't want to get burned again. Imagine you're working on a painting, and you have a cup of hot coffee sitting right next to it. You know that it's dangerous to keep that cup of coffee there and that a wrong flick of the wrist can ruin your work. So you get up and move that cup of coffee far away. Compare this to computers: there are all sorts of cups of coffee right within your "clumsiness distance," except these cups are hard to see at first. So if you accidentally ruin your work with a spill, the geeks will come yelling: "you should not have hit that cup off coffee!" "You should've known it was there!" Doesn't that sound ridiculous? Well, this describes years and years and years of web mail systems where you could accidentally close your window mid-e-mail and lose your work. GMail was the first e-mail provider to offer autosave as late as 2005, and, while I have no hard data to confirm, it was at least several years until Yahoo or Hotmail had that (and my paid e-mail provider Fastmail didn't have it until '09 or something like that).

Tichy 15y ago

"So you tell them "swipe left or right with three fingers" and then they'll know" I hope this is not the only way to get out of full screen mode? I think it would have been the last thing I tried. And there are a lot of things you can try - "three finger swipe" is completely arbitrary, after all. I've been using a Mac for two years now, but I never learned any gestures and I would be screwed if they became mandatory. I guess I am still stuck in the "basic Windows switcher mode".

ugh 15y ago
You can press ESC (which, I think, is universally the standard command for exiting full screen mode), you can mouse up to the menu bar and click the full screen button or you can use the shortcut that gets you into full screen mode to exit it again. I wouldn’t bother with gestures. I would tell my parents to press ESC. They know that button and they should already be aware that it is often used to exit full screen modes.
- Tichy 15y ago
  ESC is fine and it makes sense to learn about it. As you say, it is pretty universal, whereas three finger swipe will only work on OS X.