4 ms·

Well, yeah, police was endlessly demonized and underfunded in the past decade. There are a few bad apples, but that doesn't justify group guilt and neglect. Rio

Well, yeah, police was endlessly demonized and underfunded in the past decade. There are a few bad apples, but that doesn't justify group guilt and neglect. Rioters should have never been able to attack Capitol OR government buildings in Seattle/Portland. Not saying that Jan 6 was not a bigger threat to the union of those events, although vast majority of rioters were simple hooligans with no credible plans to gain or hold power.

zimpenfish 5y ago
> police was endlessly demonized and underfunded in the past decade. https://cfo.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ocfo/publication/attachments/fa_mpd_chapter_2021m.pdf https://cfo.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ocfo/publica... suggests that the DC police have had a stable budget since at least 2018. https://ibo.nyc.ny.us/RevenueSpending/nypd.html https://ibo.nyc.ny.us/RevenueSpending/nypd.html suggests that NYPD have had an increasing budget since 1980. https://www.injusticewatch.org/data/2020/chicago-has-nearly-tripled-per-capita-police-spending-since-1964-data-show/ https://www.injusticewatch.org/data/2020/chicago-has-nearly-... suggests that Chicago PD have had an increasing budget since 1964. Do you have some sources for the "underfunded in the past decade"?
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  You can have stable or even increasing budgets and still be underfunded. Not saying this is necessarily the case here, just that it's definitely possible to pull that off.
  - Splognosticus 5y ago
    It's not the case as far as I can tell--the DC Metro PD reports show crime there is dropping steadily over time[1]. There's a lot of factors that go into why crime rates change, but suffice to say that if the police weren't funded properly they wouldn't be able to handle the workload. [1] https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/district-crime-data-glance https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/district-crime-data-glance
- mike_d 5y ago
  DC has the 7th highest population growth rate in the country https://dc.gov/release/2020-census-data-shows-dcs-population-growth-nearly-tripled-compared-previous-decade https://dc.gov/release/2020-census-data-shows-dcs-population... NY metro area has added the population of Los Angeles (4m) since 1980 https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/23083/new-york-city/population https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/23083/new-york-city/popul... Chicago Metro has grown from 6.5 million in '64 to 8.8 million https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/22956/chicago/population https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/22956/chicago/population
vkou 5y ago
> demonized Do you think it may have something to do with a culture where a police officer can put his knee on an unarmed man's throat, hold it there until he dies, write it up as a 'Police responded to a medical emergency, man died on the way to the hospital', and then have their peers close rank around them when the truth gets out?
- roenxi 5y ago
  The police will sometimes, in the routine execution of their duty, have to pin someone down. I don't recall any evidence that the murder was intentional. There is an expectation that the police are the sort of people who could kill someone if the need arises. They aren't all going to be philosophers. Given that and the vitriol around the situation, it is quite reasonable for the police to close ranks around him and look to the most charitable interpretation of what happened. The courts exist to sort out such situations, the police don't need to become vigilantes as well.
  - pjc50 5y ago
    The police exerted considerable effort precisely to prevent it ever going to court. Derek Chauvin would never have seen court without months of protests. > look to the most charitable interpretation of what happened This is not a courtesy the police extend to anyone else. > There is an expectation that the police are the sort of people who could kill someone if the need arises This is a very serious problem and not an excuse. > the police don't need to become vigilantes as well. We're asking the police to investigate, report and submit for prosecution, a crime. If they refuse to do that simply because they're protecting someone they've ceased to be police.
    - roenxi 5y ago
      > Derek Chauvin would never have seen court without months of protests. That is an uncertain counterfactual. There was widespread horror at the video. Since he was in fact prosecuted and convicted quite convincingly it obviously wan't impossible. > [police being mentally prepared to kill] is a very serious problem... It is expected. That is part of their role in society. Otherwise it'll be necessary to get the army involved in policing crimes.
vultour 5y ago
Underfunded? US police does army cosplay and drives around in vehicles that one would expect in Syria and not the streets of a first world country.

zimpenfish 5y ago

> police was endlessly demonized and underfunded in the past decade. https://cfo.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ocfo/publication/attachments/fa_mpd_chapter_2021m.pdf https://cfo.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ocfo/publica... suggests that the DC police have had a stable budget since at least 2018. https://ibo.nyc.ny.us/RevenueSpending/nypd.html https://ibo.nyc.ny.us/RevenueSpending/nypd.html suggests that NYPD have had an increasing budget since 1980. https://www.injusticewatch.org/data/2020/chicago-has-nearly-tripled-per-capita-police-spending-since-1964-data-show/ https://www.injusticewatch.org/data/2020/chicago-has-nearly-... suggests that Chicago PD have had an increasing budget since 1964. Do you have some sources for the "underfunded in the past decade"?

formerly_proven 5y ago
You can have stable or even increasing budgets and still be underfunded. Not saying this is necessarily the case here, just that it's definitely possible to pull that off.
- Splognosticus 5y ago
  It's not the case as far as I can tell--the DC Metro PD reports show crime there is dropping steadily over time[1]. There's a lot of factors that go into why crime rates change, but suffice to say that if the police weren't funded properly they wouldn't be able to handle the workload. [1] https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/district-crime-data-glance https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/district-crime-data-glance
mike_d 5y ago
DC has the 7th highest population growth rate in the country https://dc.gov/release/2020-census-data-shows-dcs-population-growth-nearly-tripled-compared-previous-decade https://dc.gov/release/2020-census-data-shows-dcs-population... NY metro area has added the population of Los Angeles (4m) since 1980 https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/23083/new-york-city/population https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/23083/new-york-city/popul... Chicago Metro has grown from 6.5 million in '64 to 8.8 million https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/22956/chicago/population https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/22956/chicago/population

vkou 5y ago

> demonized Do you think it may have something to do with a culture where a police officer can put his knee on an unarmed man's throat, hold it there until he dies, write it up as a 'Police responded to a medical emergency, man died on the way to the hospital', and then have their peers close rank around them when the truth gets out?

roenxi 5y ago
The police will sometimes, in the routine execution of their duty, have to pin someone down. I don't recall any evidence that the murder was intentional. There is an expectation that the police are the sort of people who could kill someone if the need arises. They aren't all going to be philosophers. Given that and the vitriol around the situation, it is quite reasonable for the police to close ranks around him and look to the most charitable interpretation of what happened. The courts exist to sort out such situations, the police don't need to become vigilantes as well.
- pjc50 5y ago
  The police exerted considerable effort precisely to prevent it ever going to court. Derek Chauvin would never have seen court without months of protests. > look to the most charitable interpretation of what happened This is not a courtesy the police extend to anyone else. > There is an expectation that the police are the sort of people who could kill someone if the need arises This is a very serious problem and not an excuse. > the police don't need to become vigilantes as well. We're asking the police to investigate, report and submit for prosecution, a crime. If they refuse to do that simply because they're protecting someone they've ceased to be police.
  - roenxi 5y ago
    > Derek Chauvin would never have seen court without months of protests. That is an uncertain counterfactual. There was widespread horror at the video. Since he was in fact prosecuted and convicted quite convincingly it obviously wan't impossible. > [police being mentally prepared to kill] is a very serious problem... It is expected. That is part of their role in society. Otherwise it'll be necessary to get the army involved in policing crimes.

vultour 5y ago

Underfunded? US police does army cosplay and drives around in vehicles that one would expect in Syria and not the streets of a first world country.