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I completely fail to see what's the issue with what OP said, care to explain? It is completely accurate, algorithms are built by people whom live inmersed on t

I completely fail to see what's the issue with what OP said, care to explain? It is completely accurate, algorithms are built by people whom live inmersed on their own temporary and geographically atomized cultures, just look at modern supposed ""unbiased"" algorithms used to ""prevent crime"", it is just racial biases baked in

nickthemagicman 5y ago
I am super confused as well. Lol. This website is really strange.
- ZephyrBlu 5y ago
  I suspect the "may have" is what set people off.
  - nickthemagicman 5y ago
    Thanks for letting me know. So strange. The 'algorithm' is the noun object of the preposition. Not society or history . Is modern English education really that poor? Or is there purposeful misinterpretation in order to be offended? I just don't get it.
    - rincebrain 5y ago
      When I read it, as a native speaker, I read "treated poorly by the algorithm" as being a term for the behavior of culture and systems of the time, and not a hypothetical algorithm from the future that took as input the culture of the time and made decisions about fairness. I think it was the use of "the algorithm" and not "an algorithm" that most affected my reading there - "poorly by an algorithm" comes across, to me, as "poorly by some algorithm", rather than "poorly by _the_ algorithm", implying a specific instance of a thing, already known by the reader or referred back to later, doing it. Consider "treated poorly by the system" versus "treated poorly by such a system", which has an even clearer connotation, to me.
      - noduerme 5y ago
        My first reading as a native speaker was that "the algorithm" meant "the Man". But after several readings, I think he meant that this algorithm would categorize someone who was legally considered less than a citizen as a more likely recidivist. Which is an interesting point. Particularly in the US where there's a notion of illegal immigrants having already broken the law. Would this algorithm consider them to be more likely to be repeat offenders if it were weighted to treat noncitizenship as a factor, or overstaying a visa as a crime? And if so, then why wouldn't it weight slaves as more likely to reoffend. And if it did that, what would stop it from weighting the descendants of slaves the aame way?
        unishark 5y ago
        I thought the US was somewhat unusual in its lax treatment of illegal immigration. However lying to or sneaking past border officials to enter a country is literally a crime yes (certainly for foreign nationals, and probably not kosher for citizens to do either). Though entering on a visitor visa and overstaying is just a civil violation with a civil penalty (deportation). If a citizen had a record of using false identity documents or trying to evade legally-enforced border crossings, a fair algorithm would presumably have to take that into account just as well.
        nickthemagicman 5y ago
        Interesting example of how context can affect the sentencing and seriousness of the crime!
        unishark 5y ago
        Well if you enter as a legal visitor through a border checkpoint you give the govt the opportunity to do security checks, restrict import of various things, charge customs taxes. Plus they have an idea you are there. It makes sense that sidestepping some or all of that screening and record-keeping will be treated more harshly.
        5y ago
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    I see how the parents wording is confusing. IMO, they weren't saying African Americans "may have been treated poorly" in the past (I suspect this is quite uncontentious), they were saying that even this algorithm, now, applied back in the 1700s may not have eliminated bias. Instead, it may have simply applied the prevailing biases emotionlessly. It's hard to see the inequities of your system when you participate in it.
ljm 5y ago
> African Americans may have been treated poorly by the algorithm back in the 1700s Tell me about how your algorithm enslaved people.
- nickthemagicman 5y ago
  If you're asking if I took a time machine back to the 1700's to use an imaginary algorithm, to enslave people, I assure you good sir I did not. This is indeed one of the potential problems with inventing an algorithm to sentance people, as I mentioned before, is that it would be written to match the biases of the time period.
ljm 5y ago
For context, the issue was, as many posters said, this: > African Americans may have been treated poorly On my part, I'm british. "Fucking hell, man!" for me is a way of being exasperated; I was surprised with reading that. It's not a condemnation, it's surprise. And a phrase containing 'may have' is begging for equivocation, especially when referring to black people as 'african americans' while talking about their treatment. > Black people may have been treated poorly ^ this is the sentence that I read

nickthemagicman 5y ago

I am super confused as well. Lol. This website is really strange.

ZephyrBlu 5y ago
I suspect the "may have" is what set people off.
- nickthemagicman 5y ago
  Thanks for letting me know. So strange. The 'algorithm' is the noun object of the preposition. Not society or history . Is modern English education really that poor? Or is there purposeful misinterpretation in order to be offended? I just don't get it.
  - rincebrain 5y ago
    When I read it, as a native speaker, I read "treated poorly by the algorithm" as being a term for the behavior of culture and systems of the time, and not a hypothetical algorithm from the future that took as input the culture of the time and made decisions about fairness. I think it was the use of "the algorithm" and not "an algorithm" that most affected my reading there - "poorly by an algorithm" comes across, to me, as "poorly by some algorithm", rather than "poorly by _the_ algorithm", implying a specific instance of a thing, already known by the reader or referred back to later, doing it. Consider "treated poorly by the system" versus "treated poorly by such a system", which has an even clearer connotation, to me.
    - noduerme 5y ago
      My first reading as a native speaker was that "the algorithm" meant "the Man". But after several readings, I think he meant that this algorithm would categorize someone who was legally considered less than a citizen as a more likely recidivist. Which is an interesting point. Particularly in the US where there's a notion of illegal immigrants having already broken the law. Would this algorithm consider them to be more likely to be repeat offenders if it were weighted to treat noncitizenship as a factor, or overstaying a visa as a crime? And if so, then why wouldn't it weight slaves as more likely to reoffend. And if it did that, what would stop it from weighting the descendants of slaves the aame way?
      - unishark 5y ago
        I thought the US was somewhat unusual in its lax treatment of illegal immigration. However lying to or sneaking past border officials to enter a country is literally a crime yes (certainly for foreign nationals, and probably not kosher for citizens to do either). Though entering on a visitor visa and overstaying is just a civil violation with a civil penalty (deportation). If a citizen had a record of using false identity documents or trying to evade legally-enforced border crossings, a fair algorithm would presumably have to take that into account just as well.
        nickthemagicman 5y ago
        Interesting example of how context can affect the sentencing and seriousness of the crime!
        unishark 5y ago
        Well if you enter as a legal visitor through a border checkpoint you give the govt the opportunity to do security checks, restrict import of various things, charge customs taxes. Plus they have an idea you are there. It makes sense that sidestepping some or all of that screening and record-keeping will be treated more harshly.
      - 5y ago
- arcticbull 5y ago
  I see how the parents wording is confusing. IMO, they weren't saying African Americans "may have been treated poorly" in the past (I suspect this is quite uncontentious), they were saying that even this algorithm, now, applied back in the 1700s may not have eliminated bias. Instead, it may have simply applied the prevailing biases emotionlessly. It's hard to see the inequities of your system when you participate in it.

ljm 5y ago

> African Americans may have been treated poorly by the algorithm back in the 1700s Tell me about how your algorithm enslaved people.

nickthemagicman 5y ago
If you're asking if I took a time machine back to the 1700's to use an imaginary algorithm, to enslave people, I assure you good sir I did not. This is indeed one of the potential problems with inventing an algorithm to sentance people, as I mentioned before, is that it would be written to match the biases of the time period.

ljm 5y ago

For context, the issue was, as many posters said, this: > African Americans may have been treated poorly On my part, I'm british. "Fucking hell, man!" for me is a way of being exasperated; I was surprised with reading that. It's not a condemnation, it's surprise. And a phrase containing 'may have' is begging for equivocation, especially when referring to black people as 'african americans' while talking about their treatment. > Black people may have been treated poorly ^ this is the sentence that I read