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Before going to extremes, many hacking victims try the usual routes to get customer service but quickly find out it seems impossible to reach someone at Faceboo

Before going to extremes, many hacking victims try the usual routes to get customer service but quickly find out it seems impossible to reach someone at Facebook to help fix the problem. Same story with AI lockouts at Google. Even if you do have access to "someone at Google" good luck getting a clear answer of what happened or how to fix the issue.

SilverRed 5y ago
I think we can appreciate how this is a difficult problem though. Google support would get a torrent of actual hackers contacting them to gain access to someones account. Not restoring access to a few real cases is probably better than giving access over to a hacker. GitLab recently said that customer support will not help restore access to your account if you lock yourself out unless you have an active subscription to your account and can use your billing details as verification. How should google support handle this? Perhaps banks should offer an identify verification service?
- busymom0 5y ago
  Disagree. A company as big as google should have the decency to at least have a human reach out to paying developers before they permanently ban apps which developers use to make a living: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26956077 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26956077
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    I wonder why Google doesn’t just offer a premium support tier.
    - dudus 5y ago
      They do. Support is part of Google One.
      - MattGaiser 5y ago
        Either it doesn’t work for apps/Chrome extensions or it is extraordinarily badly advertised. I’ve seen a lot of threads on Google issues. Never heard of this. Thanks.
        SilverRed 5y ago
        There is a difference between user account support and developer support. I agree developer support needs work but user account support is available for paying customers.
    - SilverRed 5y ago
      I just checked and from the google one page I can contact them via phone, email or IM. You just have to pay for any plan.
- weare138 5y ago
  Maybe hire some people to handle it? But that would cost them money. That's why companies like Google and Facebook have crap support. The cost of not having it hasn't exceeded the cost of implementing it.
  - SilverRed 5y ago
    The people are the problem, they can be tricked in to giving access to the wrong person. That's why I'm suggesting some kind of identify verification service is the only safe way. It is not reasonable to have every service have it's own identity verification venue in every city so it would have to be centralized some how.
    - weare138 5y ago
      How come other tech companies can handle customer support but Facebook can't? Oh that's right they can but just don't do it. It's not like they can't afford it but would mean slightly less profits. Like I said they don't do it because the cost of not having a support staff hasn't exceeded the financial liability of not having one. Tech companies can and do provide customer support at scale. It's not that it can't be done, Facebook just doesn't do it because you losing your account is an unnoticeably minute lose of potential revenue compared to the cost of providing support. You losing your Facebook account doesn't cost Facebook shit. Fixing that problem does. But instead of just proposing Facebook hire a support staff you want everyone to now give copies of their ID's to Facebook instead? Facebook. One of the most egregious exploiters of our personal information for profit. And the answer is to just give them more because the massive amount of information they already have isn't enough to solve this trivial issue. Have you considered that Facebook is just a corporation who's sole purpose is to generate revenue for it's owners and shareholders like every other corporation and you are just a commodity to them? Facebook has the money to solve your problems with Facebook but why would they bother when no matter what they do everyone just keeps using Facebook.
      - SilverRed 5y ago
        >How come other tech companies can handle customer support I would challenge that assumption. There are countless stories of ISPs, carriers, Sony, etc handing over someones account to a hacker because the hacker called up and said they were locked out. How do you verify someone who has called up on the phone to see they are the real owner of the account and not the person who knows the current password? I would rather have maximum security on my account. 2FA, other methods of verification. And if I get locked out I get locked out. Hopefully the account would be set up to self destruct after n months inactivity. I can create a new account and upload my backups. I would much rather this than allowing some random tech support person hand over my account to someone on the phone. There is also the "You get what you pay for" thing. Support costs money and people are not paying for Facebook. I pay for a Google One subscription and this gives me access to customer support. I also do a monthly data dump using Google Takeout so I am prepared to either create a new google account or move to an alternative platform if my account is locked. Getting locked out and having no one access my account is far preferable to having someone else given access to my account.
- treeman79 5y ago
  A basic sanity is let the email address on file as of yesterday, and for the past 10 years take the account back. Utterly insane that this is not possible.
  - mwint 5y ago
    Maybe the fear here is the divorce scenario? I could see someone being trusted for many years up until yesterday, when they suddenly become someone you don’t want in your account.
    - whimsicalism 5y ago
      And if the divorcee simply changes the account to a new email address? I think there will be problems with every solution, but this one would probably resolve a lot of tnem.
    - treeman79 5y ago
      On an account with exactly one email? A new one shows up and takes over the account, permanently locking out the old one. All in 20 minutes?
- triceratops 5y ago
  > Perhaps banks should offer an identify verification service? In Canada the postal service offers this. You can show your ID at any post office and be verified. Sounds pretty convenient.[1] 1. https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/business/postal-services/digital-proof-identity.page https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/business/posta...
- Toutouxc 5y ago
  > Perhaps banks should offer an identify verification service? Not sure if you mean specifically the google+bank case but that's a thing in my country, it's called "bank identity". I file my taxes and social security forms (and can access my covid tests records) while my bank vouches for my identity, i.e. I have to go through their regular internet banking login + 2FA.
busymom0 5y ago
Yep. Even developers with apps which might have gotten wrongly flagged by the artificial unintelligence only get to talk to automated emails unless they can create a big enough shit storm on social media to get a few tech blogs to write about it. A very recent example was Droid script app on Android: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26956077 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26956077
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
fencepost 5y ago
The utter lack of customer service options at Google is just one of the reasons to avoid EVER having ANYTHING important to your or your business dependent on them. Maybe they lock you out, maybe they discontinue the service, there's nothing you can do to be sure that won't happen.
throw_m239339 5y ago
Still waiting for the adsense money Google owes me from 13 years ago... they conveniently banned me pretending I was clicking on my own ads... I never did that... and again, they 100% know it's bullshit, they send me a 50€ voucher for ad-word to my physical address, like it was any sort of fair compensation...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

SilverRed 5y ago

I think we can appreciate how this is a difficult problem though. Google support would get a torrent of actual hackers contacting them to gain access to someones account. Not restoring access to a few real cases is probably better than giving access over to a hacker. GitLab recently said that customer support will not help restore access to your account if you lock yourself out unless you have an active subscription to your account and can use your billing details as verification. How should google support handle this? Perhaps banks should offer an identify verification service?

busymom0 5y ago
Disagree. A company as big as google should have the decency to at least have a human reach out to paying developers before they permanently ban apps which developers use to make a living: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26956077 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26956077
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  I wonder why Google doesn’t just offer a premium support tier.
  - dudus 5y ago
    They do. Support is part of Google One.
    - MattGaiser 5y ago
      Either it doesn’t work for apps/Chrome extensions or it is extraordinarily badly advertised. I’ve seen a lot of threads on Google issues. Never heard of this. Thanks.
      - SilverRed 5y ago
        There is a difference between user account support and developer support. I agree developer support needs work but user account support is available for paying customers.
  - SilverRed 5y ago
    I just checked and from the google one page I can contact them via phone, email or IM. You just have to pay for any plan.
weare138 5y ago
Maybe hire some people to handle it? But that would cost them money. That's why companies like Google and Facebook have crap support. The cost of not having it hasn't exceeded the cost of implementing it.
- SilverRed 5y ago
  The people are the problem, they can be tricked in to giving access to the wrong person. That's why I'm suggesting some kind of identify verification service is the only safe way. It is not reasonable to have every service have it's own identity verification venue in every city so it would have to be centralized some how.
  - weare138 5y ago
    How come other tech companies can handle customer support but Facebook can't? Oh that's right they can but just don't do it. It's not like they can't afford it but would mean slightly less profits. Like I said they don't do it because the cost of not having a support staff hasn't exceeded the financial liability of not having one. Tech companies can and do provide customer support at scale. It's not that it can't be done, Facebook just doesn't do it because you losing your account is an unnoticeably minute lose of potential revenue compared to the cost of providing support. You losing your Facebook account doesn't cost Facebook shit. Fixing that problem does. But instead of just proposing Facebook hire a support staff you want everyone to now give copies of their ID's to Facebook instead? Facebook. One of the most egregious exploiters of our personal information for profit. And the answer is to just give them more because the massive amount of information they already have isn't enough to solve this trivial issue. Have you considered that Facebook is just a corporation who's sole purpose is to generate revenue for it's owners and shareholders like every other corporation and you are just a commodity to them? Facebook has the money to solve your problems with Facebook but why would they bother when no matter what they do everyone just keeps using Facebook.
    - SilverRed 5y ago
      >How come other tech companies can handle customer support I would challenge that assumption. There are countless stories of ISPs, carriers, Sony, etc handing over someones account to a hacker because the hacker called up and said they were locked out. How do you verify someone who has called up on the phone to see they are the real owner of the account and not the person who knows the current password? I would rather have maximum security on my account. 2FA, other methods of verification. And if I get locked out I get locked out. Hopefully the account would be set up to self destruct after n months inactivity. I can create a new account and upload my backups. I would much rather this than allowing some random tech support person hand over my account to someone on the phone. There is also the "You get what you pay for" thing. Support costs money and people are not paying for Facebook. I pay for a Google One subscription and this gives me access to customer support. I also do a monthly data dump using Google Takeout so I am prepared to either create a new google account or move to an alternative platform if my account is locked. Getting locked out and having no one access my account is far preferable to having someone else given access to my account.
treeman79 5y ago
A basic sanity is let the email address on file as of yesterday, and for the past 10 years take the account back. Utterly insane that this is not possible.
- mwint 5y ago
  Maybe the fear here is the divorce scenario? I could see someone being trusted for many years up until yesterday, when they suddenly become someone you don’t want in your account.
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    And if the divorcee simply changes the account to a new email address? I think there will be problems with every solution, but this one would probably resolve a lot of tnem.
  - treeman79 5y ago
    On an account with exactly one email? A new one shows up and takes over the account, permanently locking out the old one. All in 20 minutes?
triceratops 5y ago
> Perhaps banks should offer an identify verification service? In Canada the postal service offers this. You can show your ID at any post office and be verified. Sounds pretty convenient.[1] 1. https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/business/postal-services/digital-proof-identity.page https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/business/posta...
Toutouxc 5y ago
> Perhaps banks should offer an identify verification service? Not sure if you mean specifically the google+bank case but that's a thing in my country, it's called "bank identity". I file my taxes and social security forms (and can access my covid tests records) while my bank vouches for my identity, i.e. I have to go through their regular internet banking login + 2FA.

busymom0 5y ago

Yep. Even developers with apps which might have gotten wrongly flagged by the artificial unintelligence only get to talk to automated emails unless they can create a big enough shit storm on social media to get a few tech blogs to write about it. A very recent example was Droid script app on Android: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26956077 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26956077

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

fencepost 5y ago

The utter lack of customer service options at Google is just one of the reasons to avoid EVER having ANYTHING important to your or your business dependent on them. Maybe they lock you out, maybe they discontinue the service, there's nothing you can do to be sure that won't happen.

throw_m239339 5y ago

Still waiting for the adsense money Google owes me from 13 years ago... they conveniently banned me pretending I was clicking on my own ads... I never did that... and again, they 100% know it's bullshit, they send me a 50€ voucher for ad-word to my physical address, like it was any sort of fair compensation...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]