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While this is a literal interpretation of all-cause mortality from the paper, I’m not sure this is the right take away. There was such a dramatic reduction in

While this is a literal interpretation of all-cause mortality from the paper, I’m not sure this is the right take away. There was such a dramatic reduction in overall cases in the vaccination group that deaths are probably more statistical noise in both groups than being tied to covid one way or another. Currently deaths and cases have diverged dramatically in the population and this might be more indicative of the real world vaccine performance as it pertains to reducing death.

jkhdigital 5y ago
In this study the vaccine reduced Covid-19 infection rates by like 90%, and essentially eliminated severe cases. This is great! But the same number of people died in each group. So vaccines do not reduce Covid-19 mortality, period. Does this mean vaccines are a waste of time? No, of course not! It just means we should be precise and correct in the claims we make based on statistics, and not fudge them to say things that sound good but are not true. EDIT: Fair enough, I'm making the same sloppy mistakes... this study doesn't say anything, positive or negative, about vaccine effects on mortality. But it certainly doesn't support the journalist's claim. It does support the claim that vaccines dramatically reduce infection rates and severity, which is great and reason enough to get vaccinated.
- glorppe 5y ago
  I don’t follow the logical leap. It’s clear the paper doesn’t demonstrate a difference, you’re right. I do think it’s disingenuous to say that the vaccine categorically doesn’t prevent deaths, if it can prevent infections that would lead to deaths, that’s a good outcome. Additionally, the real world performance in the general population is showing a massive divergence in deaths and cases in elderly populations after the coverage of vaccines. That may be from some other variable and not vaccines, but I’m not sure that I would be able to suggest an alternative cause.
  - jkhdigital 5y ago
    Did I categorically say that the vaccine doesn't prevent deaths? I simply cited a study which shows no effect, and scolded the journalist for making a claim that doesn't seem to have solid scientific support. I'm not making a statement about vaccines, I'm making a statement about journalists playing fast and loose with science. > That may be from some other variable and not vaccines, but I’m not sure that I would be able to suggest an alternative cause. This is why we do science. Your lack of imagination about causal relationships is not evidence for or against any particular causal relationship.
    - glorppe 5y ago
      You did categorically state it: “So vaccines do not reduce Covid-19 mortality, period.” You also missed my nuance, but that’s not surprising at this point.
- dtech 5y ago
  2 people in the placebo group died with a covid infection and 1 in the vaccinated group. That is way to little data to even remotely make such a bold claim. Or, if I follow your flawed logic, Covid vaccines reduce mortality by 50%!
  - jkhdigital 5y ago
    The bold claim is the journalist in this article who said that vaccines are the reason we should see a 90% reduction in mortality. That is an optimistic projection, not a fact-based statement. That's all. Christ, people think I'm anti-vaccine just for being pedantic about science reporting...
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      So, now that we have seen a 90% reduction in mortality ... ?

jkhdigital 5y ago

In this study the vaccine reduced Covid-19 infection rates by like 90%, and essentially eliminated severe cases. This is great! But the same number of people died in each group. So vaccines do not reduce Covid-19 mortality, period. Does this mean vaccines are a waste of time? No, of course not! It just means we should be precise and correct in the claims we make based on statistics, and not fudge them to say things that sound good but are not true. EDIT: Fair enough, I'm making the same sloppy mistakes... this study doesn't say anything, positive or negative, about vaccine effects on mortality. But it certainly doesn't support the journalist's claim. It does support the claim that vaccines dramatically reduce infection rates and severity, which is great and reason enough to get vaccinated.

glorppe 5y ago
I don’t follow the logical leap. It’s clear the paper doesn’t demonstrate a difference, you’re right. I do think it’s disingenuous to say that the vaccine categorically doesn’t prevent deaths, if it can prevent infections that would lead to deaths, that’s a good outcome. Additionally, the real world performance in the general population is showing a massive divergence in deaths and cases in elderly populations after the coverage of vaccines. That may be from some other variable and not vaccines, but I’m not sure that I would be able to suggest an alternative cause.
- jkhdigital 5y ago
  Did I categorically say that the vaccine doesn't prevent deaths? I simply cited a study which shows no effect, and scolded the journalist for making a claim that doesn't seem to have solid scientific support. I'm not making a statement about vaccines, I'm making a statement about journalists playing fast and loose with science. > That may be from some other variable and not vaccines, but I’m not sure that I would be able to suggest an alternative cause. This is why we do science. Your lack of imagination about causal relationships is not evidence for or against any particular causal relationship.
  - glorppe 5y ago
    You did categorically state it: “So vaccines do not reduce Covid-19 mortality, period.” You also missed my nuance, but that’s not surprising at this point.
dtech 5y ago
2 people in the placebo group died with a covid infection and 1 in the vaccinated group. That is way to little data to even remotely make such a bold claim. Or, if I follow your flawed logic, Covid vaccines reduce mortality by 50%!
- jkhdigital 5y ago
  The bold claim is the journalist in this article who said that vaccines are the reason we should see a 90% reduction in mortality. That is an optimistic projection, not a fact-based statement. That's all. Christ, people think I'm anti-vaccine just for being pedantic about science reporting...
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    So, now that we have seen a 90% reduction in mortality ... ?